Angband 4.2.3

[Pete Mack]

With addition of 2 more realms, all casting has been unified to 'm'. ('P' is still peruse.)
I suppose the alternative was to add 'c'urse and 's'ing. Ypu can always add a keymap.

[sffp]

Ok -

So now I'm a priest and the p for prayer key has stopped working.
It was bad enough for magic casters, but for priests?

[Pete Mack]

That is brutal. Ouch!

[MattB]

Wow.
I had already learned to detest blood falcons - in a good way X-D - but this was brutal...

[Last Messages]

> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon claws you (10).
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon bites you (16).
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> You have learned the rune of teleportation ban.
> Your Leather Scale Mail prevents you teleporting.
> You have learned the rune of anti-teleportation curse.
> Teleportation forbidden!
> You have 5 Scrolls of Teleportation (g).
> The blood falcon claws you (12).
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon claws you (15).
> You die.

[ewert]

Ehhh... not in my experience. The only times I've ever had to grind beyond the point of boredom was in the endgame when I was low on consumables. And I got low on consumables because I was too aggressive.

And I suppose what I mean by "can't really kill them" what I mean is "can't kill them without either burning through way too many consumables, or putting yourself at way too high risk of dying."

Sounds like a classic catch-22, either you need more consumables if you are actually killing stuff, or you are not killing stuff and not needing more consumables?

However, if we put say the top 3 gear items in a vault to random top 10 mobs in the vault, it would incentivize a moderate kill/consumables change, as instead of just flicking everything away from a vault you would rather kill the stuff.

Could be just a % thing as well, so that big vaults have more in mobs and small vaults might have just one item, so risk vs reward.

[Sphara]

There was a change about six weeks ago which probably caused this - see this thread.

Didn't understand much of this but thanks for pointing that there indeed was a change

Those are excessive numbers for early-game devices. I suppose early warrior doesn't need to rely on items like BDSM and RoI, but now their activation is borderline useless. Unless you develop a tolerance for even more "you failed to activate it properly" -messages.

[Nick]

What's with huge failure percentage activating worn items as a warrior? Have things changed or was it really always like this?

Ring of Ice and Blue Dragon Scale Mail have 62% failure playing XL25 Dunadan Warrior. Those items are not overly powerful and they have long recharge period. Warrior already gets lower damage using devices.

There was a change about six weeks ago which probably caused this - see this thread.

[archolewa]

To be fair, I don't think any class should be considered as unable to kill stuff. Some are just faster as they lack utility.

But you would still have the consumables in the floor. Often you might lack consumables, and cheesing the vault floor will be quick source of those.

Ehhh... not in my experience. The only times I've ever had to grind beyond the point of boredom was in the endgame when I was low on consumables. And I got low on consumables because I was too aggressive.

And I suppose what I mean by "can't really kill them" what I mean is "can't kill them without either burning through way too many consumables, or putting yourself at way too high risk of dying."

[Sphara]

What's with huge failure percentage activating worn items as a warrior? Have things changed or was it really always like this?

Ring of Ice and Blue Dragon Scale Mail have 62% failure playing XL25 Dunadan Warrior. Those items are not overly powerful and they have long recharge period. Warrior already gets lower damage using devices.

[ewert]

I was going to say this unfairly punishes Rogues, who dont have access to banishment cheese, but still arent tough enough to take on many top mobs. But then I realized this would make the otherwise useless steal xommand, and steal-and-teleport spell worth using...

Though this definitely hurts every other class really badly. Nobody can really fight Reavers, Greater Balrogs, or Wyrms without using way too many consumables. I think vaults would end up becoming shiny things you ignore.

To be fair, I don't think any class should be considered as unable to kill stuff. Some are just faster as they lack utility.

But you would still have the consumables in the floor. Often you might lack consumables, and cheesing the vault floor will be quick source of those.

[will_asher]

"An angry Ent is terrifying. Their fingers, and their toes, just freeze on to rock; and they tear it up like bread-crust. It was like watching the work of great tree-roots in a hundred years, all packed into a few moments." - Merry.

I stand corrected.

[Nick]

Why do hasty ents tunnel at all? That doesn't really makes sense to me. (It makes a lot more sense for balrogs than it does for ents imo. For RubberBand, I took KILL_WALL off of ents and most balrogs, but left it on Lungorthin and Gothmog.)

"An angry Ent is terrifying. Their fingers, and their toes, just freeze on to rock; and they tear it up like bread-crust. It was like watching the work of great tree-roots in a hundred years, all packed into a few moments." - Merry.

[will_asher]

The latest release from the releases page has the following changes to monsters:

• Abyss worm masses, hasty ents, hounds of Tindalos, Makar and storms of unmagic are rarer;
• Greater Balrogs, Lungorthin and Gothmog no longer tunnel.

Let's see how that goes. I have some ideas about making monster pathfinding less effective, but would like to get an idea of how things stand now first.

Why do hasty ents tunnel at all? That doesn't really makes sense to me. (It makes a lot more sense for balrogs than it does for ents imo. For RubberBand, I took KILL_WALL off of ents and most balrogs, but left it on Lungorthin and Gothmog.)

[Nick]

The latest release from the releases page has the following changes to monsters:

• Abyss worm masses, hasty ents, hounds of Tindalos, Makar and storms of unmagic are rarer;
• Greater Balrogs, Lungorthin and Gothmog no longer tunnel.

Let's see how that goes. I have some ideas about making monster pathfinding less effective, but would like to get an idea of how things stand now first.

[backwardsEric]

I'm noticing that every time I fire an arrow, I get the message: "You combine some items in your pack.". This is with multiple bundles of regular arrows (+0,+0) loaded in the quivers.

That was a change in 4.2.3 to resolve https://github.com/angband/angband/issues/4882 : with stacks of 40 and 10 similar items using one from the stack of 40 would give a "You have 39 ..." message but a (silent) recombining of the pack would leave stacks of 40 and 9 which some felt was confusing. Firing from the last stack (highest numbered quiver slot) of the (+0, +0) arrows would avoid the recombining message, though that's admittedly less convenient since the slot number of the last stack can change while firing.