Current master post 4.2.0

[DavidMedley]

Yeah, it looks like if you replaced that "any" with the type of metal the monster is you'd get that type of precious metal. The value passed in is only used to pick the type if the string doesn't match. So something like
obj=make_gold(level, "copper");
would always create copper coins, but if you found the creeping copper at depth 100 it would be many more copper coins (on average) than if you found it at depth 1.

This would only be a cosmetic change, if I'm reading it correctly.

[DavidMedley]

I tried summoning creeping coins through the debug commands in 4.2.0 and I always got the exact number and type of coin I was supposed to. So, that seems to be working perfectly, actually. I haven't really watched when I'm playing a real game to see if everything matches up then.

[Nick]

Oh and I finally found out why mimics don't match with the money they drop...

In mon_create_drop(), we use drop level to generate the drop:

level = MAX((monlevel + player->depth) / 2, monlevel);
level = MIN(level, 100);
obj = make_gold(level, "any");

In mon_create_mimicked_object(), we just use the depth:

obj = make_gold(player->depth, kind->name);

Those two will usually not match, so what we "see" is actually not what we "get".

Nice, thanks

[Sphara]

The big problem I have with latest version is that it's almost impossible to play without being Full all the time. As soon as you quaff a few CSW potions you're at 95% satiation and it takes forever to go away.

Nick already answered this but Slow Digestion is seriously ruining good artifacts.

I'd remove Slow Digestion from the game altogether but the community probably isn't keen on removals. At least add some mushrooms of purging in shop 1, or something.

[tangar]

In my variant I've added to shop for now:

name:Stomach Water
graphics:!:d
type:potion
level:3
weight:4
cost:1
effect:NOURISH:SET_TO
dice:5
msg_self:The potion calms your stomach.
msg_other: hiccups.

[luneya]

Nick already answered this but Slow Digestion is seriously ruining good artifacts.

I'd remove Slow Digestion from the game altogether but the community probably isn't keen on removals. At least add some mushrooms of purging in shop 1, or something.

Or go back to the days when maxing out nutrition had no consequences whatsoever. Really, overeating penalties are a relic of old-school Angband in the same category as potions of death and floating eye paralysis loops, and I don't understand why anyone would want to bring any of these back.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Or just revert the Scroll of Remove Hunger behavior to what it used to be, leaving @ satiated, but not full, i.e., upon reading it sets @ hunger to 50%, whether or not @ was above or below that.

[Nick]

Since it's nearly a year since the beginning of the New Bad Old Days of the current hunger/food system (which brought to an end the Golden Age following the end of the Bad Old Days), I thought I'd just point at my post outlining some of the justification for the current system.

The current problem as I see it is one of balance. My planned solution is to change regen from adding a flat amount of digestion to doubling it, and change slow digestion from dividing digestion rate by 5 to dividing it by 2. We can see how the balance looks then.

[DavidMedley]

change regen from adding a flat amount of digestion to doubling it, and change slow digestion from dividing digestion rate by 5 to dividing it by 2.

These sound reasonable to me, and since no one asked I'll throw out some thoughts of my own.

• Being 100% full should carry no penalty. Going over 100% should be a problem.
• I rather like the idea that your belly can only take so much potion.
• All potions should feed you a small amount, not just some potions.
• When you eat or drink something that would gorge you it should give you a warning and a y/n prompt:
  • Food with no other benefit should say "Some will be wasted" and stop before gorged.
  • Potions and mushrooms should say "This will leave you gorged."
  • If I can't have both, the latter will be fine.
• I don't see any problem with scrolls of Satisfy Hunger bringing your food meter down. Seems better than making players save salt water for 80 dungeon levels, or "jog it off." If this means players get around the finite space in their bellies via magic, well, it's magic. Burning excess calories is on the low end of the miraculous scale.

[Nick]

New builds are now up on the nightlies page with the following changes:

• Fixed a bug which caused crashes in monster lore
• Adjusted digestion rate so that it is doubled by regen and halved by slow digestion
• Pulled in backwardsEric's latest raft of bugfixes and improvements:
  • Fix (at least partial) to crashes from reading Rune of Protection scrolls
  • Plug some memory leaks in my code
  • Deal with the issue where tunneling caused hitpoint drain
  • Refixed a couple of bugs (#4190 and #4334) that I had done an incomplete fix for
  • New system to control the player property display panel in a more configurable way; this was a lot of work

I am actually getting a subwindow-related crash on opening the game with the new build. So I haven't updated angband.live yet; I'll do more testing.

EDIT: Right, small fix pushed, and angband.live updated

[Ed_47569]

These sound reasonable to me, and since no one asked I'll throw out some thoughts of my own.

• Being 100% full should carry no penalty. Going over 100% should be a problem.
• I rather like the idea that your belly can only take so much potion.
• All potions should feed you a small amount, not just some potions.
• When you eat or drink something that would gorge you it should give you a warning and a y/n prompt:
  • Food with no other benefit should say "Some will be wasted" and stop before gorged.
  • Potions and mushrooms should say "This will leave you gorged."
  • If I can't have both, the latter will be fine.
• I don't see any problem with scrolls of Satisfy Hunger bringing your food meter down. Seems better than making players save salt water for 80 dungeon levels, or "jog it off." If this means players get around the finite space in their bellies via magic, well, it's magic. Burning excess calories is on the low end of the miraculous scale.

I agree with this, all makes sense. To be honest though, I've not had too much of an issue with being gorged, I just make sure that going into big fights like Morgoth I'm no more than 50% full, leaving room for plenty of potions.

To be honest, I think the fact that we're now debating the hunger mechanic means the game is probably at its best ever, with great balance and entertainment. The monster upgrades and changes in 4.2 have successfully reversed the perception that the game was getting "easier", ever since version 3.0 was released (probably a true perception).

Thanks Nick for all the great changes you've made since you took over.

[DavidMedley]

Totally concur; game is better than ever.

From my earlier post, I should have said that all potions should feed you the exact same amount (who wants to have to Inspect for this info?). And I kinda snuck in a name change reversion suggestion: Remove Hunger -> Satisfy Hunger.

Addendum: I also have not had too many problems with gorging. But it can be very punishing.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Addendum: I also have not had too many problems with gorging. But it can be very punishing.

I agree that the hunger mechanic is better than its previous complete irrelevance. Hopeful that Nick's recent changes improve the hunger balance ever further. Still wish "Remove Hunger" (or "Satisfy Hunger") scrolls could set one to 50%. Just hate wasting a bunch of turns before the final fights for the sole purpose of burning off food so that healing potions won't cause problems.

[Nick]

I agree that the hunger mechanic is better than its previous complete irrelevance. Hopeful that Nick's recent changes improve the hunger balance ever further. Still wish "Remove Hunger" (or "Satisfy Hunger") scrolls could set one to 50%. Just hate wasting a bunch of turns before the final fights for the sole purpose of burning off food so that healing potions won't cause problems.

I think I actually like Sphara's suggestion of making mushrooms of purging appear in the General Store.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I think I actually like Sphara's suggestion of making mushrooms of purging appear in the General Store.

Sounds good to me.

Question about the behavior upon reading an unknown scroll. Didn't it used to say "You see no more Scrolls titled IDENTIFIED" rather than what it does now, "You see no more Scrolls titled GOBLYGOOK"?