Angband 4.0beta status

[Nick]

My ring of reckless attacks glows every time I hit something, melee or ranged, despite the accuracy and damage bonuses being known. It continued to give me "your ring glows"messages until someone hit me and completed the full identification.

Edit: build 905dd from 20 may.

I haven't been able to reproduce this - could anyone seeing it provide a savefile?

[Nick]

Yes, Amulets of Trickery have changed from the 3.5.1 and earlier variety. There were only 3 modifiers (not just in the header list, but on the actual amulet powers). That's not to say it had only 3 powers, but those powers all had to have one of the 3 modifiers.

Formerly, I believe Trickery had a maximum of 5 Dex, 3 Speed and Stealth, 7 Searching (I don't recall whether infravision was part of Trickery).

Now, it looks like Trickery maximums are: 5 Dex, 3 Speed, 3 Stealth (no longer combined with the speed stat), 7 Searching, 7 Infravision (either added or no longer combined with the searching stat).

This is absolutely correct.

The other items which were like this in 3.5.1 were amulets of the Magi (Searching and INT always the same) and, amusingly, Boots of Annoyance (same minus to Speed and Stealth).

Since replicating this behaviour in 4.0 would involve a complete hack that I would rip out immediately on release, I think I'm going to deviate from policy here and leave it as is. But I will allow display of more than 4 modifiers.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

...Use | instead of . for quiver selection from other object menus....

Actually, the instructions in the equipment and inventory menus now "say" that | will get you to the quiver, but it does not in fact do so. [.] is still what actually accomplishes the task. | still does nothing from within the menus.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

...Use | instead of . for quiver selection from other object menus....

When using Identify scroll, staff, or rod, to identify ammunition picked up into quiver, the | command will not give access to the item to identify. I.e., if @ has some other unidentified item in the pack, but doesn't want to use the identify charge on it, and instead wants to identify the missiles in the quiver, the item in the pack automatically comes up and the | command won't get you to the quiver. (The arrow keys will, though they aren't documented in the game so I don't know how people will know to do this).

[Jungle_Boy]

My ring of reckless attacks glows every time I hit something, melee or ranged, despite the accuracy and damage bonuses being known. It continued to give me "your ring glows"messages until someone hit me and completed the full identification.

Edit: build 905dd from 20 may.

[Timo Pietilä]

Formerly, I believe Trickery had a maximum of 5 Dex, 3 Speed and Stealth, 7 Searching (I don't recall whether infravision was part of Trickery).

That explains why I haven't found Trickery with +4 speed. I thought I was just unlucky. When they were single PVAL -things +4 was max for everything.

[Timo Pietilä]

I've always thought this particular ego seemed excessive. I'm not sure how far back the change goes

IIRC 3.0, IE. when JLE edits got incorporated into game. Many, many changes at that point.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

...In fact, I suspect a gameplay change has snuck through here, because in 3.5.1 IIRC there would have been a max of 3 different modifiers.

Yes, Amulets of Trickery have changed from the 3.5.1 and earlier variety. There were only 3 modifiers (not just in the header list, but on the actual amulet powers). That's not to say it had only 3 powers, but those powers all had to have one of the 3 modifiers.

Formerly, I believe Trickery had a maximum of 5 Dex, 3 Speed and Stealth, 7 Searching (I don't recall whether infravision was part of Trickery).

Now, it looks like Trickery maximums are: 5 Dex, 3 Speed, 3 Stealth (no longer combined with the speed stat), 7 Searching, 7 Infravision (either added or no longer combined with the searching stat).

[debo]

rPoison and rNexus. Those are fixed. I would not miss searching, infra and stealth, but I would like to keep speed and DEX.

Usually by the time you get one of these you have found ESP and ESP trumps infra with so big margin that infra becomes pretty much useless.

Currently searching is useless. Even with amulet of Seaching at dlvl 1 with bonus of bazillion it would still be useless. We really would need some real use for that skill in order to make it useful again.

Stealth you can get elsewhere. I think this is only jewelry giving stealth. At least can't remember any other jewelry giving stealth (and IMO stealth should be clvl and class dependent skill more than something fixed you get from items and race anyway).

I just thought stealth fit better with the theme of trickery than the other things. Any trimming that kept it to <= 3 individual bonuses would be a better idea than changing the rendering to allow >4 of them imo!! Especially since a couple of them really do seem quite useless (infra, searching.)

Update 3a93c47 fixes:

debo - these things are ridiculous only if you think the number of resistances, properties etc on Angband are ridiculous (which I guess is a yes for you).

Not really -- my most-played variant is probably poschengband, so...

I've always thought this particular ego seemed excessive. I'm not sure how far back the change goes (possibly it's a Z thing), but poscheng trickery amulets seem a lot more reasonable (how often do you hear that???), might be worth checking those ones in the future.

[Nick]

Update 3a93c47 fixes:

• Crash on dropping an item that merged with a floor item
• Quiver sorting (I hope)
• Quiver showing as empty when it isn't
• Quiver command not usable in stores
• Use | instead of . for quiver selection from other object menus

The reason for only 4 modifiers in "Trickery is that the description code needs a maximum number of modifiers to display - I chose 4. Probably should be 5, or rewritten so it doesn't need a maximum. In fact, I suspect a gameplay change has snuck through here, because in 3.5.1 IIRC there would have been a max of 3 different modifiers.

debo - these things are ridiculous only if you think the number of resistances, properties etc on Angband are ridiculous (which I guess is a yes for you).

[Timo Pietilä]

Different question: Why are these [Trickery] amulets so ridiculous??? They could be rPois (iirc they usually are?), +stealth, +speed, and that would already be sort of insane for the amulet slot.

rPoison and rNexus. Those are fixed. I would not miss searching, infra and stealth, but I would like to keep speed and DEX.

Usually by the time you get one of these you have found ESP and ESP trumps infra with so big margin that infra becomes pretty much useless.

Currently searching is useless. Even with amulet of Seaching at dlvl 1 with bonus of bazillion it would still be useless. We really would need some real use for that skill in order to make it useful again.

Stealth you can get elsewhere. I think this is only jewelry giving stealth. At least can't remember any other jewelry giving stealth (and IMO stealth should be clvl and class dependent skill more than something fixed you get from items and race anyway).

[debo]

Would it be better UI if we instead said something like?

t) 49 missiles in 2 Quiver slots
u) ...

I don't really care how it works, I just wanted to make sure it was WAD I didn't realize that quivers in vanilla could hold mixed ammo types.

Angband 4.0 dev 6dc5445
Amulet of Trickery strangeness... the headline only lists 4 modifiers.

Amulet of Trickery <+5,+2,+4,+7>
+5 dexterity.
+2 stealth.
+4 searching skill.
+7 infravision.
+3 speed.

Where is the speed modifier in the headline?

Different question: Why are these amulets so ridiculous??? They could be rPois (iirc they usually are?), +stealth, +speed, and that would already be sort of insane for the amulet slot.

[Nick]

Belay my last. It is something else entirely. Another mimic or item crush bug, perhaps? I can't nail it down exactly, but play a little in this vault and see if you don't get a crash. This is on OSX. [ATTACH]1258[/ATTACH]

Thank you, savefile was very useful. The problem was that an arrow was dropping and getting absorbed, and then the description routine was getting called, but nothing was left to describe. Solution - describe the thing before it gets dropped, which is kind of obvious logically anyway. Funny how that keeps happening. Next update will have a fix.

As for the quiver re-ordering - I keep getting that logic wrong, too. Will try again.

[Nomad]

I know it's not strictly an Ego type, but would it be possible to add the types of Dragon Scale armor to the ego ignore list? E.g., I'd like to ignore all Red, Black, White, Dragon Scale Armor, since no matter what Ego, if any, it carries I just don't want it. But I do want to see Chaos Dragon Scale Mail, for instance.

You can do that from the object knowledge menu with autoinscriptions - set DSMs to a given quality squelch level but then have Chaos and other types you do want to keep set up to be autoinscribed !k. (I do that for Caestus as well so they don't squelch with all the other gloves.)

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I know it's not strictly an Ego type, but would it be possible to add the types of Dragon Scale armor to the ego ignore list? E.g., I'd like to ignore all Red, Black, White, Dragon Scale Armor, since no matter what Ego, if any, it carries I just don't want it. But I do want to see Chaos Dragon Scale Mail, for instance.