memorable randarts

[MattB]

I would consider this as a flaw/bug. Same if you find a randart armor part with only +AC. The randart engine should ensure that weapons and armor parts get at least one ability, even if it's feather falling or similar crap.

Well, it can't be harmed by the elements. Which is handy...ish.

[PowerWyrm]

My first artifact in an iron man game:

The Morning Star of Elithar (2d6) (+5, +9)

Dropped by Ugluk, the Uruk at 1650 feet (level 33)

Cannot be harmed by acid, fire, electricity or cold

I wonder if it was based off of Melkor or something.

I would consider this as a flaw/bug. Same if you find a randart armor part with only +AC. The randart engine should ensure that weapons and armor parts get at least one ability, even if it's feather falling or similar crap.

[Estie]

Its missing pconfusion.

[PowerWyrm]

Slightly improved Thranduil? Sounds to me like a massively improved Dor-Lomin!

[MattB]

Eek! Nice!
(And a hat that makes you hallucinate on demand is pretty cool.
Think how much money you'll save on mushrooms at parties.)

[Thraalbee]

Thranduil++

Just picked up a slightly improved Thranduil for my Kobold Fighter. Sweet!

o) the Metal Cap 'Elebriel' [3,+13] <+4> 
     Dropped by The Phoenix at 3150 feet (level 63).
     
     +4 strength, intelligence, dexterity, constitution.
     +20% to searching.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
     When activated, it grants temporary resistance to fire and cold,
     cures 200HP, but also makes you hallucinate wildly.
     Takes 199 to 220 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 89.3%

[ranger jeff]

Hey, you may get *Really* lucky and find a shield or something that grants you a brand or slay. The +7 speed on that is enough to make it great, but being only (+10,+12) is kind of weak. Without the brand/slay, 7d7+12 averages the same as 5d5+25. If you have other gear that together gets you up to (+30,+30) somehow I might stick with it for a while, you'll average 300dpr or so against everything, and you'll move faster than most monsters... if you also don't need your weapon slot to cover resists or something.

And I've seen, IIRC, several 6d7's, at least one 7d7, and I think... maybe it was a dagger like 11d4. 9d8 sounds familiar, too, but that's probably Grond. So probably not that rare.

[Thraalbee]

7d7 on a Short Sword is highly unusual, isn't it?. However without *slay* or brand it is not overpowered, just odd.

w) the Short Sword of Athron (7d7) (+12,+10) <+7> {!d!x!v}
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 2700 feet (level 54).
     
     +7 speed.
     Provides resistance to cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
     Combat info:
     6.0 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 324.6.

[Magnate]

Er...looking at the min/max depths, can this ever exist?

the Small Metal Shield of Avatarad [5,-21]
------------------------------------------
Cursed.
Provides resistance to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Drains experience.


Min Level 12, Max Level 4, Generation chance 8, Power 5, 6.0 lbs
Based on Berúthiel.

Maybe in a chest on dlvl 2-4?

(Not that I'm overly concerned to be missing out on this little beauty!).

No, I don't think it can. I didn't realise that could happen - good spot. (To reassure others, I don't think it could happen to non-cursed randarts.)

[MattB]

Er...looking at the min/max depths, can this ever exist?

the Small Metal Shield of Avatarad [5,-21]
------------------------------------------
Cursed.
Provides resistance to acid.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Drains experience.


Min Level 12, Max Level 4, Generation chance 8, Power 5, 6.0 lbs
Based on Berúthiel.

Maybe in a chest on dlvl 2-4?

(Not that I'm overly concerned to be missing out on this little beauty!).

[OOD Town drunk]

This is possibly the best randart I've found so far:

the Ring of Estelon <+3, +1>
     Dropped by Maeglin, the Traitor of Gondolin at 4350 feet (level
     87).
     
     +3 strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution,
     charisma, speed.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Provides resistance to lightning, fire, cold, dark, sound.
     Provides protection from confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  Grants telepathy. 
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
     When aimed, it creates a large frost ball with damage 200.
     Takes 254 to 312 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 90.7%
     
     Radius 1 light.

[Magnate]

Indeed. And because of this, I think that (despite, I'm afraid, all the work you've put into it) designing randarts by overall object power is doomed to failure. I think the O-style micromanagement by slot is a better approach.

Having said that, though, V randarts still work pretty well. And it's possible that you could add per-slot restrictions/modifications that might improve things.

Here's me, sitting on the fence again.

I don't see why the approaches can't be combined. Overall object power has many uses other than randarts, and seems a sensible approximation as long as we accept that it can never be perfect. But "micromanagement by slot" sounds like it would lead to some improvements.

I did implement per-slot ratings/restrictions/mods, but I can no longer remember what made it into V, what's in v4 and what's only possible in Pyrel. Pyrel is definitely the most advanced/flexible system, and Pyrel's randarts will I hope combine the best of both approaches.

[LostTemplar]

Object power is OK, however it should then be translated into object rarity, using some function, which should depend on slot. Gaussian definitely should work. Simply compute means and sigmas for standard artifacts (for every slot) and use the same values for randart distributions. Remove 'based on' stuff.

[Nick]

This. This is why rating speed is so hard. The value of speed is nonlinear, and its precisely type of nonlinearity is slot-dependent.

Indeed. And because of this, I think that (despite, I'm afraid, all the work you've put into it) designing randarts by overall object power is doomed to failure. I think the O-style micromanagement by slot is a better approach.

Having said that, though, V randarts still work pretty well. And it's possible that you could add per-slot restrictions/modifications that might improve things.

Here's me, sitting on the fence again.

[Magnate]

Thing with that weapon is that it allows you to use a huge variety of things other than speed, RoDam instead of RoS for example. +10 speed over zero speed is also +100% increase in damage. +20 speed over +10 is 50% more damage and +30 speed over +20 speed is 30% more damage (approx).

It also allows you to move same amount as that damage before monsters get turn and can wake up, so it also helps stealth same amount. Speed trumps (almost) everything else until you hit +30 or so (+20 for those that have easy access to haste).

For classes that do not have access to easy haste that weapon would be rather obvious choice at least until you find something a lot better while still at speed that is manageable.

For armor that is not boots speed is huge bonus. That is why DSM of Speed got removed from game. Everybody ended up using one if they found one. +10 in cloak is better than any normal artifact set armor except Feanor. I would probably use that over Bladeturner-equal cloak in endgame (that is unless I have +30 speed from other obvious choices, like Ringil & Feanor & Nenya & Vilya, and even then it is still tempting)

This. This is why rating speed is so hard. The value of speed is nonlinear, and its precisely type of nonlinearity is slot-dependent.