FAangband 1.1

[Nick]

I'm too tired to muck with it much right now, sorry.

No. I'm sorry.

You shouldn't be getting anything to do with SDL. I make by going to the src directory in a terminal and doing 'make -f Makefile.osx'.

But the .dmg should be fine. I really don't get it. Mine looks like this.

[LostTemplar]

I have some thoughts about FAangband spells, and want to know other's opinions about this subject.
1) wall of force is way too weak, useless, while it is supposed to be 'ultimate' mage's spell, 17% minimum failure removes any possibility to even consider to cast this spell.
2) cacophony and thrust away are slightly too strong.
3) black breath is not good spell for necromancer, should go to assassin, have way lower level req. and mana cost, while necro may have something else here, HP -> MP conversion spell seems to fit well.
4) there are many other too weak and useless spells e.g. rogue's magic disarm, but I am concerned about high level useless spells first.

[Nick]

I have some thoughts about FAangband spells, and want to know other's opinions about this subject.

Thanks for this - my high level spellcaster experience is fairly limited...

1) wall of force is way too weak, useless, while it is supposed to be 'ultimate' mage's spell, 17% minimum failure removes any possibility to even consider to cast this spell.

Having that high a fail rate is not intended behaviour - I'll revisit that.

2) cacophony and thrust away are slightly too strong.

Noted - I've had my suspicions about thrust away for a while.

3) black breath is not good spell for necromancer, should go to assassin, have way lower level req. and mana cost, while necro may have something else here, HP -> MP conversion spell seems to fit well.

Agree to both - that's a good idea.

4) there are many other too weak and useless spells e.g. rogue's magic disarm, but I am concerned about high level useless spells first.

Good point about magic disarm. If you felt like changing any of these and testing in your branch, that would be great - I am more focused on deeper structural issues at the moment. In fact, I might look into making it easier for you and others to make changes - how do you feel about bazaar (Launchpad) versus git (github)?

[kaypy]

The damage from thrust away seems about right to me- for damage output its weaker than the elemental spells, but hurts nearly everything. The problem is that the knockback is too effective.

If you made the knockback based on the proportion of the targets total health inflicted rather than the base damage, I think it would tone the spell down into something a lot less abusable. You'd still be able to send the cannon fodder flying, but anything dangerous you would be barely able to keep away.

I'm also seeing some crash, seems to be related to lots of objects (occurs around big vaults, or when clearing dragon pits or the like, was able to stop it by destroying objects). Or it could just be that Morgoth has learned how to save scum...

edit: heres a graph of dam/turn and dam/mana for the spells I currently have with a l48 mage: http://img.ie/876a0.png

[Nick]

If you made the knockback based on the proportion of the targets total health inflicted rather than the base damage, I think it would tone the spell down into something a lot less abusable. You'd still be able to send the cannon fodder flying, but anything dangerous you would be barely able to keep away.

I think this is probably a good idea. Currently the knockback is 3 + dam/20 grids (for monster or player) - maybe 1 + 10 * (dam/max_hp)?

I'm also seeing some crash, seems to be related to lots of objects (occurs around big vaults, or when clearing dragon pits or the like, was able to stop it by destroying objects). Or it could just be that Morgoth has learned how to save scum...

OK, thanks - that's an annoying one. Possibly it's to do with compacting of objects.

edit: heres a graph of dam/turn and dam/mana for the spells I currently have with a l48 mage: http://img.ie/876a0.png

Interesting. I see what you mean about damage from thrust away. My feeling is that those seem pretty reasonable - probably because mostly I inherited them rather than designing them...

[LostTemplar]

maybe 1 + 10 * (dam/max_hp)?

Even 1 knockback is abusive, you can hold one enemy out of LOS forever, you can hit enemy 20 squares away, and thrust it out, then it spend it's turn to move back, just hit it again. I suggest limiting range here, something like beam with 1 + (level/10) length.
Knockback may be reduced too.

Cacophony can be level + 3d(level) damage, slighly weaker and random just like other dispells, still stun anything, it is huge deal when dispelling pits.

Lower failure rate (maybe by 15, so 2% minimum) and 4*level damage will be fine for wall of force imho. It deals full damage only at melee range, so it will not be superior to other damage spells in general.

Btw temporary elemental brands was not working, fixed. Alter reality in ironman will be 'nothing happens', alter reality trap too, so no more abuse.

[Fendell Orcbane]

Is it true...

The Staff of winds seems to do a lot of damage to Morgoth. Certainly more than storm hammers. FA Morgoth also seems a lot smarter than V Morgoth. FA Morgoth just keeps summoning D's Hardcore D's too. I'm in the middle of my battle and took a break for dinner.

[Nick]

The Staff of winds seems to do a lot of damage to Morgoth. Certainly more than storm hammers. FA Morgoth also seems a lot smarter than V Morgoth. FA Morgoth just keeps summoning D's Hardcore D's too. I'm in the middle of my battle and took a break for dinner.

The Staff of Winds may be too powerful - I have already toned down its stunning once, it may need more nerfing. I'm a bit torn on that.

And yes, he should be smarter than the V version - and summoning Ds is never a bad idea

[Fendell Orcbane]

The Staff of Winds may be too powerful - I have already toned down its stunning once, it may need more nerfing. I'm a bit torn on that.

And yes, he should be smarter than the V version - and summoning Ds is never a bad idea

Oddly enough the staff doesn't seem to do tons of damage to other monsters. But with M. it does seem to do. However wait until I do a full report. Actually maybe I should save scum this bit of the game so that I can play around(after I win) or maybe leave it here so that you can mess around and see for yourself? Let me know.

I've been using create doors since FA Morgoth also destroys a lot of cover. Hate f8&kin# Morgoth.

[Psi]

I've been using create doors since FA Morgoth also destroys a lot of cover. Hate f8&kin# Morgoth.

You can blame me for that idea - I wanted to prevent LoS abuse against Morgy and also create more space for summoning...

I'm not sure that the Staff of Winds does too much damage - I'd have to see the figures. I've certainly not noticed anyway. The big thing is the chance of stunning which is a huge bonus against spellcasters.

[Storch]

I have not played FA for almost a year (version 1.0), so perharps I missed something new. What is Wall of force? I play mostly mages and FA has very interesting/different gameplay in this regard. Kudos to developers.

There are still some (almost) useless spells i.e. spells I do not use. But it is much better than in V. If you have future plans in this regard, so much the better.

The stunning effect of thrust away, cacophony and The Staff of Winds is too strong. I tended to abuse the stunning all the time in late game. I was able to kill Ungolianth and Sauron as a mage at CL 41 with no problem. They did not stand a chance - I kept them out of melee range, out of sight if necessary and stunned so they could not cast spells.

[Nick]

I have not played FA for almost a year (version 1.0), so perharps I missed something new. What is Wall of force?

Most powerful attack spell - like thrust away but a cone.

The stunning effect of thrust away, cacophony and The Staff of Winds is too strong.

Yes, this seems to be the general opinion. In fact, LostTemplar has already done a bunch of work on improving spell balance (among other things), and I will probably put out 1.1.6 soon.

[LostTemplar]

No brainer push_out_of_sight is fixed, staff of winds seems ok. Btw we have NO_STUN property, currently only used by one monster, it can be simply added to more. Also TELE_SELF_TO can be used more IMHO. This will make the game harder, if it is common opinion, that currently it is too easy.

[buzzkill]

No brainer push_out_of_sight is fixed, staff of winds seems ok. Btw we have NO_STUN property, currently only used by one monster, it can be simply added to more. Also TELE_SELF_TO can be used more IMHO. This will make the game harder, if it is common opinion, that currently it is too easy.

That sounds like the wrong way to fix it.

[Storch]

No brainer push_out_of_sight is fixed, staff of winds seems ok. Btw we have NO_STUN property, currently only used by one monster, it can be simply added to more. Also TELE_SELF_TO can be used more IMHO. This will make the game harder, if it is common opinion, that currently it is too easy.

Perharps better chance to resist? To provide high uniques with immunity to stun would be exactly what I do not want. It is excellent that it is possible inflict negative status even to the big M.

What about introducing another such effects - spells for reducing visibility (smoke screen), another ways than runes to drain mana and slow, creating false dummy targets (rune that would monsters try to attack), confusing monsters to attack other monsters ... I like tricks better than brute force :-)