Current master post-4.1.3

[Nick]

Can you give some examples of monsters in your version that are unusually dangerous for their depth?

Well, gorgons and 9-headed hydras, but they may be so dangerous they need toning down. Blood falcons if you don't see them coming. Eastern dwarf lords and stiffbeard sorcerers are like the old dark elves, but not light-susceptible.

Others may be better able to give examples - it does depend a bit on the class you're playing, which is one of the things I was aiming for.

[Pete Mack]

I totally agree. The dangerous monsters are a risk. The easy monsters at depth are the rewards, since they tend to have a high EXP/cost ratio. The game would be a lot more boring if it were different. That said, if Dreads are native to dl 44, they need to be worth more EXP, perhaps 2x more.

I don't dispute that dreads are tougher then most things at their old depths but I do dispute that monsters should appear at there "correct" depth in the monster list (see others comments upthread on white wraiths).

You know one of the changes I liked least in late poscheng was the removal of Gachapin. He appeared super early for the threat level he presented, adding occassional danger to otherwise "safe" mid-levels. An early dangerous monster presents a different threat to OOD, eapecially considering there's a dynamic (earlier dreads + OOD). It's a different density & probability spread. I think it's a mistake to impose too much order here.

[Mondkalb]

I have been playing several rogues during the last few weeks and have noticed that recharging might be too powerful as it is now.
I can't tell any exact numbers, but I had only a few destroyed wands/stuffs.
Also, the actual number of increased charges per recharge seems to be way higher than in previous versions.
Wands of TO are now even more poweful than ever before.
Yesterday I cleaned an entire vault mainly with TO, recharging several times during the process.

[Mondkalb]

Well, gorgons and 9-headed hydras, but they may be so dangerous they need toning down. Blood falcons if you don't see them coming. Eastern dwarf lords and stiffbeard sorcerers are like the old dark elves, but not light-susceptible.

Others may be better able to give examples - it does depend a bit on the class you're playing, which is one of the things I was aiming for.

One of my rogues got shred to pieces by a blood falcon lately. I didn't look closely and mistook it for just one of those ... but it was a new one. ^^

Also, abyss spiders (don't recall the exact name). They have the icon of a tick or some such, I believe, but are way more dangerous.

Ah, also the new dunadan (pink/violet "d" ?) is just a pain.

[Sphara]

Trap-summoned monsters still get a first turn.

Is the thing here not to touch magical traps without disarming device? Because the outcome is too risky as it is now.

Tried to pick a chest trap (Multiple Traps one) on DL50. The chest exploded and Scatha, Itangast, Queen Ant and Rogrog were all summoned and all got one move before I had a chance of doing anything. I got lucky this time but this kind of bullshit just isn't right. One breath from either Dragons would have killed me. I know I was at speed +0 so those monsters were all initially faster. I dunno if that's a point: haste yourself before attempting to disarm a magical trap.

I think just summoning uniques without the first turn and destroying the chest and all its contest, is punishment enough for triggering the trap. I have posted about this topic before after being killed by similar situations without any chance of surviving.

If nothing is going to be done, should I assume I am SUPPOSED to carry disarming devices or leave the chests (and other traps) alone?

[Nick]

Trap-summoned monsters still get a first turn.

OK, will fix.

[Sphara]

OK, will fix.

Thank you

[Voovus]

Just returned to Angband after a break of a few months. Got instakilled by a blood falcon, without being given the opportunity to do anything. In fact, the beast isn't even in my lore list now, presumably because I never had a turn with it in sight. Not happy. I like a challenging monster, but not an "oops you die just because" scenario.

The actual experience was, in some mildly sick way, more amusing. A Dwarf Priest just found a secret door, and decided to see what's behind it:

> You have found a secret door.
> You failed to pick the lock.
> You have picked the lock.
> The blood falcon claws you.
> The blood falcon bites you.
> The blood falcon claws you.
> Low hitpoint warning!
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon bites you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon misses you.
> The blood falcon bites you.
> You die.

[Nick]

Just returned to Angband after a break of a few months. Got instakilled by a blood falcon, without being given the opportunity to do anything. In fact, the beast isn't even in my lore list now, presumably because I never had a turn with it in sight. Not happy. I like a challenging monster, but not an "oops you die just because" scenario.

The actual experience was, in some mildly sick way, more amusing. A Dwarf Priest just found a secret door, and decided to see what's behind it:

> You have found a secret door.
> You failed to pick the lock.
> You have picked the lock.
> The blood falcon claws you.
> The blood falcon bites you.
> The blood falcon claws you.
> Low hitpoint warning!
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon bites you.
> *** LOW HITPOINT WARNING! ***
> The blood falcon misses you.
> The blood falcon bites you.
> You die.

So you're suggesting they're possibly OP, then

[Voovus]

So you're suggesting they're possibly OP, then

"OP" is probably not the right term. For all I know they might be super-fragile - I never got a chance to find out.

My view is that any mechanic that suddenly terminates the game and makes you restart is a bad mechanic.

Yes, this includes Drolems. But Drolems are at least usually asleep. It also includes Faegweath who, a few years ago, decided to turn up at 2000' and instakill my Half-Troll Warrior before I had even noticed him. But at least there I got a very suitable "Omens of death" warning... Maybe I was just really unlucky, but I'm concerned that blood falcons will occasionally destroy perfectly good games in a bad fashion.

If you want to make the player fight for survival (rather than auto-die), make someone cast a temporary anti-teleportation curse. (Mwahahahaha....)

[Chud]

"OP" is probably not the right term. For all I know they might be super-fragile - I never got a chance to find out.

They are super fragile, but they are also super fast. Personally I enjoyed discovering them, as something new (I probably would have enjoyed them less had I died as a result). I was definitely taken by surprise at how much damage they can do all at once though.

[Derakon]

Were you at full health when you opened the door? What level were you?

Panthers are pretty similar in concept, but they aren't quite as lethal, have a fair bit more HP, and can break down doors. I think you got just about the worst possible way to be introduced to that monster, in that it was able to close to range immediately with no warning. Literally any other class would either have been able to detect it, or had enough HP to probably tank the damage.

Maybe Blood Falcons should be evil? Then priests could detect them.

[wobbly]

I like them but my necromancer went the same way, so there may be an issue. Never open doors is going to be a hard way to play. As a note it does spawn 4 of them behind a door in the "birds of a feather" room.

[Mondkalb]

Panthers and other early cats are also able to insta-kill puny rogues or wizards.
But still, this blood falcon was just mean.

[Voovus]

Were you at full health when you opened the door? What level were you?

Level 18 at 1050'. I'm pretty sure I was at full health (150), but wouldn't swear to it. The messages show I only got to "low health" after the 3rd hit.

Maybe the blood falcon could shriek (possibly repeatedly) to increase its damage instead? That would make it just as deadly over long range, but would prevent this particular type of nasty surprise.