Your views wanted on artifacts in V

[Magnate]

THE ONE RING 0
THE PALANTIR 5

If the palantir is really considered the best after the one ring we might need to tweak a bit the various artifact rarities .....

I said the top *special* artifact - as in, of the lights, rings and amulets. That said, Vilya is probably rarer.

[Psi]

If the palantir is really considered the best after the one ring we might need to tweak a bit the various artifact rarities .....

The key word you are missing is 'special'. Only the One and the Palantir are special artifacts in your list.

[bebo]

WARNING: long post

as it's the top special artifact bar The One.

Huh???? Now, my games might be just a freak accident of probabilities, but my findings up to today of the uber-rare artifacts are as follows (I'm going by memory here so this isn't 100% correct)

soulkeeper 2
razorback 1
mediator 0
bladeturner 0

boots feanor 1

bard 2
belthronding 1
xbow umbar 3

cloak tuor 0
cloak luthien 1

crown gondor 1
crown numenor 1

aule 2
eonwe 1
doomcaller 0
ringil 0
sting 1
zarcuthra 0
main gauche azaghal 1
anduril 2
ball and chain of fundin 0
deathwrecker 0
whip gothmog 1
great axe of durin 0
trident ulmo 0
glave pain 3

THE ONE RING 0
THE PALANTIR 5

If the palantir is really considered the best after the one ring we might need to tweak a bit the various artifact rarities .....

[Magnate]

Consider this a complaint I dont like the change.

John

You don't like the change to Thorin? Ok, that makes two of you - thanks for letting me know.

[Magnate]

The palantir is too powerful in randart games because it often doesn't have aggravation. Putting a random activation on it will nerf it immediately, so this probably isn't too much of a concern, if you're heading in that direction.

If you are looking for an easy way to nerf it anyways, I suggest lengthening the recharge time by about 50%. Or make drain EXP actually do something instead of being the trivial cost that it currently is. Maybe about 10x stronger...

To be honest I was really just teasing Eddie. I consider aggravation to be so bad that anyone prepared to use the Palantir deserves everything on it - including the ability to use other aggravators without further penalty.

It does turn into a powerful randart, which is fitting as it's the top special artifact bar The One. Once curses have been overhauled, all cursed artifacts will turn into cursed randarts, so the Palantir will always have *some* drawback ... in the meantime, it can stay as is. Because it aggravates, I disagree with Eddie's assertion that every winner uses it.

[JohnCW9]

I think this is an issue specific to light sources - but then you said you find Isildur an awful lot, so perhaps not.

But yes, I am not focusing on endgame kits.

I'm sorry you don't like the change to Thorin, but so far nobody else has complained - and if Thorin turns up in fewer winner dumps, I'll count that as a success.

(Now to get to work nerfing the Palantir ....!)

Consider this a complaint I dont like the change.

John

[fizzix]

I'm not sure I see the point in this - because of the aggravation, I never used it before the final battles; when I got to actually fighting Sauron and Morgoth, I already had everything that the palantir offered already covered (actually more often than not this happened even before I actually found the light source), so the only reason to bring it would have been the activation .... which I admit is really powerful, but not that necessary unless you are a warrior I'd imagine (which I was never able to take down to those depths anyway, so I'm just speculating here...).

The palantir is too powerful in randart games because it often doesn't have aggravation. Putting a random activation on it will nerf it immediately, so this probably isn't too much of a concern, if you're heading in that direction.

If you are looking for an easy way to nerf it anyways, I suggest lengthening the recharge time by about 50%. Or make drain EXP actually do something instead of being the trivial cost that it currently is. Maybe about 10x stronger...

[bebo]

(Now to get to work nerfing the Palantir ....!)

I'm not sure I see the point in this - because of the aggravation, I never used it before the final battles; when I got to actually fighting Sauron and Morgoth, I already had everything that the palantir offered already covered (actually more often than not this happened even before I actually found the light source), so the only reason to bring it would have been the activation .... which I admit is really powerful, but not that necessary unless you are a warrior I'd imagine (which I was never able to take down to those depths anyway, so I'm just speculating here...).

[Magnate]

The question is not "most people" but "most winners", when talking about endgame kits. Perhaps you are talking about midgame kits, but that is not what I thought.

Before I started diving, all of my winners found the palantir, and I am pretty sure my wife finds the palantir with every winner.

I think this is an issue specific to light sources - but then you said you find Isildur an awful lot, so perhaps not.

But yes, I am not focusing on endgame kits. I am looking at artifacts as a whole, throughout the whole game. The changes I made to the depth and rarity of the weaker artifact weapons ('thancs, Elvagil, Forasgil) doesn't seem to have caused them to litter the early dungeon levels - but they should on average be turning up earlier, and thus be more likely to be better than one's current ego.

I'm sorry you don't like the change to Thorin, but so far nobody else has complained - and if Thorin turns up in fewer winner dumps, I'll count that as a success.

(Now to get to work nerfing the Palantir ....!)

[Magnate]

How will changes (improvements) to artifacts effect randart games, or will they at all?

The net effect of the changes I've made to the standard artifacts is that about 15 are slightly better and one is slightly worse (or maybe two, I forget). The total 'power' of the artifact set probably increased no more than 1%. You will not notice any changes to randarts overall, unless you generate hundreds of randart sets and run them through a spreadsheet.

You will however notice some new properties appearing on randarts. Since I added a brand to an armour item, and +1 blows to another armour item (and +1 shots), you will now see these properties occasionally occuring on randart armour items. This isn't a direct result of the artifact changes, but separate code changes I made to keep randarts as consistent as possible with artifact.txt. As always with randarts, this means you'll sometimes see grotesque extremes, other times you'll get a bunch of drek. Any feedback is appreciated.

[Nightmarjoo]

How will changes (improvements) to artifacts effect randart games, or will they at all?

[PowerDiver]

[QUOTE=Magnate;25969]This implies that you don't consider rnether anywhere near as important as some other high resists (conf, chaos, sound I guess, maybe also nexus and disen).QUOTE]

rNether saves a few hp and some exp, both easily replenished.

Conf, chaos, and sound save you from dying. Toss in rBlind for non-dwarves. Nexus saves you from stat scrambling and being teleported down a level. Disen allows you to melee disenchanters, including many troubling uniques. Even rFear is important for priests or paladins to be able to melee after tossing PB1. Compared to any of those, nether isn't even worth a footnote.

[PowerDiver]

If Gondricam had FA as well, would you still use something else for defence?

Sure, until I found a lighter [say <= 7 lb] defender or westernesse or gondolin. Maybe even then vs westernesse if I needed regen. But the whole point of Gondricam is that it lacks FA. At least, that's what I thought was the point.

[PowerDiver]

I assume Turnil changed, since I don't remember using it in the past and this game I used it as my favorite item for an extended part of the game.

That's it looking through the artifact list. These comments are just about what I noticed in 2 games, one to DL 50 and one winner. Presumably there are more things I didn't see or just forgot.

[PowerDiver]

This attitude of "everyone will use this one item" is what prevents us from agreeing on any of this. Most people never FIND the Palantir, let alone use it.

The question is not "most people" but "most winners", when talking about endgame kits. Perhaps you are talking about midgame kits, but that is not what I thought.

Before I started diving, all of my winners found the palantir, and I am pretty sure my wife finds the palantir with every winner.