[Announce] FrogComposband 7.1.salmiak released

[MITZE]

Bug: Throwing and Throw Weapon Abilities

Had cause to look up how throwing worked, and noticed that due to the way that throwing multiplier context->mult is initialized in multiple places, it's also calculated in multiple ways, which results in some of those calculations not taking into account some things they probably should.

For instance, the Daggermaster's Dagger Toss initializes context->mult to (100 + (CL * 4)). However, in py_throw.c line 165, it's initialized to (100 + (100 if you have the throwing mutation) + (100 if the weapon has the throwing flag) + (a STR-based modifier)), only if context->mult isn't already initialized. This means that Dagger Toss won't benefit from you having the throwing mutation, the weapon having the throwing flag, or a STR-based modifier . . . which arguably, it should.

This probably applies some other abilities besides Dagger Toss as well.

[Seraphimus]

I'm curious what the pros and cons are of playing an Archer vs. playing a Weaponmaster (bows, crossbows, slings)? Clearly the Weaponmaster gets some great class powers - I especially love the sling master's powers. The Archer gets the advantage of being able to effectively use all bows, not just one type. What else? Do Archers get better damage from bows? Are they better at melee? Because right now I'm struggling to see what advantage an Archer could have that would outweigh those Weaponmaster class powers.

At a glance, the Archer is better at archery, having Amber [12] instead of just heroic, higher strength and con, better skills almost all the way across the board, save stealth and perception... (Though why do both archer specialists have poor perception), lower exp modifier better life rating, and... Don't underestimate the value of create ammo. The kind of ammo you create scales as you progress (dunno if it's depth or CLVL based) and can roll Ego ammo as well as higher quality types, like mithril bolts, or arrows of returning.

Essentially they lose out in the utility of the Bowmasters abilities for being better at basically everything else.

[GrimaTheBold]

Archer vs. Weaponmaster?

I'm curious what the pros and cons are of playing an Archer vs. playing a Weaponmaster (bows, crossbows, slings)? Clearly the Weaponmaster gets some great class powers - I especially love the sling master's powers. The Archer gets the advantage of being able to effectively use all bows, not just one type. What else? Do Archers get better damage from bows? Are they better at melee? Because right now I'm struggling to see what advantage an Archer could have that would outweigh those Weaponmaster class powers.

[MITZE]

Bug?: Devicemasters and Transfer Essence

The Transfer Essence ability for Devicemasters (devicemaster.c, line 265) seems to only let you transfer from deeper objects to ones of shallower depth, yet its safety check message (line 290) makes it seem like it's supposed to work in the opposite way (from shallow objects to ones of deeper depth).

[Thraalbee]

Mainly I avoid killing summoners unless I dont need more xp at the time

[budswell]

So I've gone back to coffee break, if I'm going to die around CL30 may as well get there quicker.
But how do you guys control the pacing? Do you just sit and rest in DLs you've pretty much cleared waiting for monsters and loot to respawn? Or do good players not really need to pace it?
I rarely get to CL35, and find that it's too much for me id DL is > CL+5. And when under CL25 I keep DL < CL

[Bostock]

Update: Got him! I dimension doored right next to him several times, but he always blinked away immediately before I could needle him. Finally I tried a charge right at him as he rounded a corner and charged me, throwing raw logrus and psycho-spears all the way. Suddenly he was right in front of me. I got him on the very first needle stab! Lucky I guess. I was expecting stab-heal-stab-heal-etc.

Note that since the babble doesn't levitate, etc., it has to spend extra energy to enter trees. It will fireball trees if you're next to them, but you can often stand one square away and approach just after it enters them without making it blink. Of course you'll need a good pile of ?Forest Creation for this, or to have some other means of tree creation.

[MITZE]

Bug(?): Death-Swords and Disenchantment

The function for Death-Swords getting disenchanted and losing their essences (r_sword.c, line 1114) doesn't appear to be called anywhere; as far as Rolanako and I can tell Disenchantment isn't any more dangerous or annoying for Death-Swords than any other character, even though I could have sworn that was not the case at some point.

[MITZE]

Bug/RFE: Giants, etc. &amp; Kronos' Sickle

Titans have Kronos as their racial boss, yet his sickle is, unflavorfully, not suitable for Giant wielding.

Posted for Rolanako.

[Pete Mack]

1 in ~8.5 for DL 50 monster. (You can't add denominators.) For what it's worth, the odds are of order 1/log(DL).

[EpicMan]

What is the go with a poison needle? I've never tried one.

Most of the time it deals exactly one point of damage, but occasionally (think around one in ten times) it will deal (monster's HP + 1) damage, which will instakill the monster.

The chance in code (from 7.1.Salmiak) is randint1(randint1(r_ptr->level/7)+5) == 1
This means that 1-time-in (random number from 6 to (5+monster level /7) ) it will kill the mob.
So for the Metal Babble guardian in the Arena, a level 80 mob, you would have 1-in-6 (best case) to 1-in-16 (worst case) chance to instantly kill it. I think (Statistics class was a long time ago) the average chance is 1-in-11.

But it varies a little based on monster level, so for instance a level 50 mob would range from 1-in-6 to 1-in-12 (average 1-in-9), while for a level 100 mob the max is 1-in-19 (average 1-in-13).

[budswell]

What is the go with a poison needle? I've never tried one.

[Sideways]

Uniques cannot be killed with a poison needle, except for the babble at the bottom of the Arena, who's a hardcoded exception.

[ShadowTechnology]

That annoying Metal Babble...

Looking for advice dealing with the Metal Babble at the bottom of the Arena Dungeon. I have my poison needle. I rekitted for high speed, high CON, high AC, reflection, immunity to fire, and double resistance to chaos and disenchantment. I brought a lot of healing with me, and phase door/teleport for escape.
The problem is I haven't been able to get more then a couple of needle attacks in. He won't let me approach within melee range. He's much faster than I will ever will be (+80 speed) and blinks away before I can step next to him. Ambushing around corners hasn't worked. If I stand behind a closed door he won't open it. If I open the door he either blinks or attacks (from a square away) and then blinks before I can move into the doorway and attack.
I'm thinking about searching for another anti-teleport amulet (I've been selling or ignoring the ones I've seen so far). But I'm nervous about needing to spend an extra turn swapping amulets when *I* need an emergence escape.
How do others get that damn Babble to hold still long enough to get a few attacks in?

Update: Got him! I dimension doored right next to him several times, but he always blinked away immediately before I could needle him. Finally I tried a charge right at him as he rounded a corner and charged me, throwing raw logrus and psycho-spears all the way. Suddenly he was right in front of me. I got him on the very first needle stab! Lucky I guess. I was expecting stab-heal-stab-heal-etc.

Now for the final challenge in the Thalos Arena. Anyone defeat the GWOP with a poison needle? Just out of curiosity, can the Serpent of Chaos be killed with a poison needle?

[ShadowTechnology]

That annoying Metal Babble...

Looking for advice dealing with the Metal Babble at the bottom of the Arena Dungeon. I have my poison needle. I rekitted for high speed, high CON, high AC, reflection, immunity to fire, and double resistance to chaos and disenchantment. I brought a lot of healing with me, and phase door/teleport for escape.
The problem is I haven't been able to get more then a couple of needle attacks in. He won't let me approach within melee range. He's much faster than I will ever will be (+80 speed) and blinks away before I can step next to him. Ambushing around corners hasn't worked. If I stand behind a closed door he won't open it. If I open the door he either blinks or attacks (from a square away) and then blinks before I can move into the doorway and attack.
I'm thinking about searching for another anti-teleport amulet (I've been selling or ignoring the ones I've seen so far). But I'm nervous about needing to spend an extra turn swapping amulets when *I* need an emergence escape.
How do others get that damn Babble to hold still long enough to get a few attacks in?