[Announce] FrogComposband 7.1.salmiak released

[KiTA]

Otherworlder (Class / Personality(?))

Abstract: A Skillmaster variant (or Personality, maybe?) with a single, chosen at creation, "cheat" ability.

Gameplay Fantasy: A confused young man/woman ending up in the Angband universe with an absurd power, setting out on the quest to destroy the Serpent of Chaos as part of a quest given by the mysterious "god" (Variant Maintainer) that brought him to the world.

Something not dissimilar to the Demigod race, only, as a class. "isekai" (other world) is a genre of Japanese fiction where a typical everyman is sent to another, usually fantasy, often video game based, world, often as a result of accidental heroic death or intervention by gods or summoners. Otherworlders (Isekai protagonists) often get a "cheat" ability as part of being sent to another world. This is often some form of abusrd skill like "level up 10 times faster" or "master any and all skills," but it can also be more mundane things like "appraise/identify anything they look at" or "grow crops instantly," or even "be granted a legendary sword and the ability to use it."

The actual "cheat ability" should be selectable upon character creation, similar to magic school or what have you. Angband examples could be things like:

• Unlimited Magic" (SP is set to 9999 and does not drop)
• "Holy Blade" (start with a special, overpowered Artifact Sword, make it sentient and leveling just for fun)
• "Harem" (Start with a powerful pet human, more are spawned as the character levels, unlike normal pets they cannot despawn or permanently die)
• "Uncanny Luck" (beyond lucky, generates beneficial OOD stuff)
• "Unending growth" (Upon reaching level 50, level is set to 1 with no change to the character's stats, allowing for continued growth; stat caps are all set to 40)

Drawbacks could be thematic -- stores, for example, could take advantage (200-500% markup), and the character could never gain pseudoID, forcing them to rely on ID the entire game.


Rival (Personality)

Abstract: The player has managed to provoke a rivalry in another, similar, adventurer. This "friend" follows them throughout their adventure to challenge them to fights, a constant source of conflict -- but also experience and loot.

Gameplay Fantasy: Our hero steps down into the 8th floor of the dungeon. As he does, a voice rings out. "I was wondering when you'd get here." Corpses and loot from the dungeon's monsters are scattered throughout the room the hero steps into; in the middle of it, their rival, laughing and preparing to fight.

A rival is a special Unique that only appears if this personality is chosen. This unique is, er, unique, as it spawns at whatever CL the player is, generally matching them in power and gameplay -- a melee player will have a melee rival, for example. This should be tuned so the rival is generally defeatable, but can be annoying to deal with when other things are going on. Of course, upon being defeated, the Rival simply recalls away, leaving a pile of loot -- the benefit of this choice is that while you will always have an annoying unique randomly appearing, defeating him will drop quality loot for the CL and DL you are on.

Random thoughts: The rival should first spawn in Outpost, setting up the rivalry, so to speak. "Rival floors" could spawn randomly, with monster generation disabled except for the rival; these floors would have corpses and loot laying around, the presumption being the Rival slew them all to remove distractions. The Rival could replace one or more arena bosses. The Rival could replace one or more dungeon bosses. The Rival could go friendly, or otherwise attack other monsters, especially Uniques, if they interfere with their fight with the player. Blue mage rivals should use blue magic, giving the player an option to learn it. Igor rivals could drop random frozen body parts. Ninja rivals should leave wooden statues behind when they flee.

[KiTA]

Man, I just keep ignoring low HP warnings. Tired of dying with tons of healing potions, heh.



Ideas scratchpad:

Tsukumogami (Monster (mimic/possessor) Race)

Abstract: Japanese themed Death-Sword, evolves like a Death-Sword but also has Samurai or Ninja abilities

We have Ninjas, we have Ninja-Lawyers, we have Samurai. Why not an animated Katana? There's been a few anime and manga out there of similar stuff. Do we do something similar to a Ring, where the player is equipped by a swordbearer, or do we do fully animated, like a Death-sword?

Gameplay Fantasy: A floating, animated Katana occasionally breaking out absurd samurai / ninja movie attacks, like something out of Bleach or what have you.

Death Swords go: Broken Sword (1-10), Death Sword (10-25), Poleaxe of Animated Attack (25-35), Hellblade (35-45), Death Scythe (45+)

Tsukumogami: Tanto (1-10), Wakazashi (10-25), Katana (25-35), No-Dachi (35-45), [Something] (45+)

I'm not sure a No-Dachi would be equivalent to a Death-Scythe, but, if we're giving the thing more powers, maybe that's ok?

Bonus silly idea: At 45, instead of evolving a second form, the No-dachi form splits into two Katanas, each with their own essence totals. (Or, have them share essence totals for simplicity's sake.)

Samurai get the ability to assume postures and Kendo "spells." Kendo is special cause you just have to read it to learn the abilities, that's useful. Postures, there seem to be 3 -- Koukijin seems to ruin your resistances for a bonus to hit/damage? Musou seems to give you a ton of everything? Fuujin seems to give you an extra blow and reflect. The Kendo abilities seem to be your standard Anime swordplay stuff, some of which make sense for a Tsukumogami (fling the character forward in a beam and hit everything on the way), some less so (temporary brands). Maybe move these to the powers menu and have them unlock as you level, like a Ninja, instead of having the Tsukumogami read books to learn them.


Amalgamation (Human subrace)

Abstract: A cursed being that slowly absorbs the physical capabilities of the things it slays into it's own body.

We have Igors, which is similar to this thematically, but obviously a mad scientist theme. This is more of a horror theme. A weak human that slowly replaces or upgrades it's body parts as it kills monsters.

Gameplay Fantasy: A tortured mess of a vaguely humanoid ~thing~ smashing through the dungeon, it's limbs swelling and contorting in odd ways, mottled patches of various other creatures' flesh seeming to meld in imperfectly with it. Akira?

So Igors get random body parts based on cutting up corpses in the dungeon, which they can then replace their own with. This class would not have that mechanic, instead it comes "naturally" -- either by absorbing corpses on the ground (turning them to skeletons in the process), eating corpses, or just a random chance of absorbing the enemy wholesale at the end of combat. It's also not an outright replacement, instead a twisted, horrific, imperfect merger of various body types.

Amalgamations would have all the standard player limb slots -- arms, head, legs, torso, etc, pulled from the Igor system. Instead of replacing body parts, Amalgamations would instead upgrade their existing body parts. Monsters have flags and the like (as shown in the recall screen) -- thus, any time the Amalgamation's ability triggers, they could grab one or more of these flags and pick a random bodypart to "evolve" (add that flag to that body part).

This "evolution" could be done directly -- picking a flag, recording what monster it came from, and adding it to the body part. Alternatively, this could be based on the Essence system from Rings/Death-swords/Rags, or even the more flexible system that Weaponsmiths use; The former would allow a more obvious reading of the situation, the latter would give players some level of control (which may not be wanted).

A bodypart would display the strongest thing it's absorbed power from, as well as the last ~3 things it's absorbed power from, for flavor. "The Heart of a Jabberwock (+3) {Cn}" would instead be "A Twisted Heart (Jabberwock (+3) {Cn})" with the details screen saying something like "A Twisted, deformed, but somehow still working human heart. While still vaguely human, it looks mostly like a Jabberwock's, while also having elements of A Cave Orc, A Mature Blue Dragon, and The Icky Queen randomly paced throughout.

Strongest absorbed essence: Jabberwock
Last three absorbed essences: A Cave Orc, A Mature Blue Dragon, The Icky Queen"

Random idea: Maybe not all the essences you absorb are beneficial -- be careful fighting those "moves erratically" monsters, for example. Maybe you can discord body parts to restore them to base if they get too corrupted -- dangerous, as it weakens you, possibly immensely in the late game, but might be valid if your eyes have gained innate VULN_FIRE or something.


Monster (Monster (other) race)

Abstract: A shapeshifting monster that changes based on what it eats.

Gameplay Fantasy: A Young Green Dragon devouring the corpse of a Stone Giant it defeated, only for it to shift and contort, turning into a Great Eagle afterwards.

SaGa games -- "Final Fantasy Legend" were the first in the US -- have a form of Monster that evolves and changes throughout the game based on what meat they eat and what rank they are and the monsters are. Androids (already implemented) come from the same setting.

The mechanics behind SaGa games' transformations are beyond what I can fully explain off the cuff, but, an attempt: SaGa uses a rank system to rank encounters from like 0 to 15 or 0 to 31; all enemies are similarly ranked, 0 to 15. Players also have this rank, based on how strong they are -- SaGa doesn't use XP levels, instead using stat growth and a rank calculated based on your total stat values. Monster player characters in SaGa start off as one monster, and at the end of combat are given a chance to eat meat from a defeated monster. This takes the monster player character's race, the race of the enemy monster, the rank of both, and looks up what the player character should turn into.

I can't explain the exact calculations -- I know there's a big spreadsheet for the first game that puts each monster in one of 25 columns, and you look up what you turn into (if anything) there. I do believe once you rank up you can't rank down.

But we already have a similar thing we could use in Angband games -- the symbol the monsters are displayed by. Ergo, we could look up based on the player's existing form, compare it to the corpse they just received, and then do a quick calculation based on the levels of each to find the new form and new rank (rounding up). A Monster character could start as a white rat, eat a corpse of a small kobold, and end up as a snaga, for example.



Amalgamation (Monster (Slime/Jelly) race)

Abstract: A small mass of pulsing flesh that slowly grows limbs, eventually becoming a twisted humanoid monstrosity.

Gameplay Fantasy: A mass of flesh holding a broken sword with one small, deformed arm, beating down a small kobold outside of Outpost. As it does so, a second arm forms out of the core of flesh. It eats the still cooling corpse, and the original arm takes on mass, gaining the scaly green fleshtone of the Kobold.

Instead of an Igor variant, what if instead Amalgamations are monsters? They start off with very limited body parts and thus equipment slots -- 1 arm, legs, etc. As they gain levels they gain additional body part slots, which unlock additional equipment slots.

This could be them slowly turning humanoid, with a level 50 Amalgamation having effectively the same slots as a human. Alternatively, they could gain body parts (and thus, equipment slots) entirely at random, or gain vastly more slots than a mere human by endgame.

The "gain / evolve body parts based on what they kill" still fits the idea, I believe -- but as a monster growing and evolving, this might fit the idea better than a human subrace.

[KiTA]

Random thought as I slam my keyboard against the difficulty curve:

Death Sword subrace idea: Tsukumogami

Tsukumogami are, quoting Wikipedia: In Japanese folklore, tsukumogami (付喪神 or つくも神,[note 1][1] lit. "tool kami") are tools that have acquired a kami or spirit.[2] According to an annotated version of The Tales of Ise titled Ise Monogatari Shō, there is a theory originally from the Onmyōki (陰陽記) that foxes and tanuki, among other beings, that have lived for at least a hundred years and changed forms are considered tsukumogami.[3] In modern times, the term can also be written 九十九神 (literally ninety-nine kami), to emphasize the agedness.[4]

In other words, a Japanese themed version of the Death Sword. Maybe a cross between Death Sword and Samurai/Ninja?

A "combat orientated" version of Igor might be fun too -- something like a mix of Blue Mage, Igor, and Mimic/possessor. That is to say, as you kill things you have a random chance of swapping out body parts for better ones, or upgrading them via essences a-la DS/Ring/FR/etc. Start off weak but by endgame you're an unholy amalgamation of various body parts in a vaguely humanoid shape.


Edit: Filthy Rags don't respect easy_mimic. And why don't their attacks count as Unarmed for skill proficciency?

[Cryomaniac]

Unless something got changed from Heng behaviour, Lazy personality gives you guaranteed artifact drops from Unicorn/Morgoth/One Ring unique monsters; it's a challenge personality with no real benefit until endgame. I'd count both Lucky and Sexy as challenge personalities as well - Lucky gives you item quality boost in exchange for noticeable stat penalties, so you still need actual real life luck to get noticeable benefits, and Sexy's constant aggravation makes the game significantly harder. I think Mighty is the best personality for survival, or just go with Ordinary if you don't want int/wis drop.

I'm personally not that familiar with Frog (I've focused more on Gensouband), but Craft/Nature schools still seem solid just like in base Heng - a dual class (proficient in melee with some degree of spellcasting) might be a good idea. Skillmasters seem fun, though you probably have to know a good build order for an easier win.

[KiTA]

Man, I keep coming back to Frog. Something about the odd stuff, like the not-quite-ToME Alchemist weaponsmith, or playing as a ring or sword, or a tonberry ninja, or android runesmith or whatever. The only other one that's kept my attention as much is ToME, although I do keep eyeballing the Touhou one as of late.

Wonder if development will ever resume on it? Or if some new variant is being built up as a successor?


Edit: Having said that, I never was able to win at the darned thing, heh. Like, I always go Lucky, but apparently there's a secret bonus somethingorotehr for going Lazy? And I hear people going Sexy? Are there any specific benefits for those?

Thread revival topic: What are your favorite, "I just want to win" class/race/option combos?

Also, might as well share this link, which I don't know the source of but suspect it's 4chan or one of the forums: https://pastebin.com/AVsp31k8

[Bucephalus]

Pets use different pathing when approaching a target and returning from one. It's curious because their return pathing is infallible, whereas the approach can be... somewhat tricky, and there's really no good reason the same math isn't applied symmetrically. How bad pet approach AI is suggests that symmetry was attempted but something went wrong.

[Bucephalus]

Furthermore, mystics who have pets, and rest, will unsuccessfully attempt to "Concentrate" every turn they are resting, which they can't do because they have pets, until many thousands of turns pass and they get hungry.

[Bucephalus]

Might be a nitpick, but using an unknown device on a monster immune to its effect will identify what that effect is in monster memory, but not necessarily identify the device itself, which does not make sense.

[Evilpotatoe]

I there a way to switch back the player characteristics to the left instead on the right ?
Or alternatively, have player infos available for window flag
--
I read http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthr...ight=left+side, but why couldn't messages just be put right to the character status ?
This might need some concatenation, but doesn't seem impossible to me.

And even if that's really incompatible, I'd probably prefer disabling those multiple messages and just keep one line, like in previous variants, so my char can remain on the left
I read messages in a window flag anyway.


Do really no solution exist for that ?

[DavidB1111]

Hey guys, first post in a long time. I've been playing a Lazy Mace Weaponmaster, and I've been wondering when or how to trigger the Lazy Quest, or whatever, to the get the Lazy super weapon.

I don't know what causes it.
Anyone know the requirements?
I'm level 45.
Do I have to hit level 50?

Do I need a high amount of Fame?
Because I can clear a few more dungeons and do a few more quests easily.

I really want to play with a Lazy weapon. Since that's the only way to get them, without DEbug mode obviously. :P

Okay, so, I decided to start up a few new characters, I Rotate between several, and the first was a dagger dual wield Weaponmaster, which uh, is really powerful, and I swear Shadow Strike makes you incapable of being hit by the enemy.

The second one is a Polearm Weapon master, and I used a Scroll of *Aquirement* on Camelot 1300 Ft, and it dropped a Trifurcate Spear with Armaggedon brand, and the dice are 7d11.
Whoa.
That is the highest roll I have ever seen for Armaggedon brand.
Has anyone seen that?
And yes, I gave myself the scroll, but sometimes you want to relax and beat up on enemies in an Angband varient. No harm in beating up Orcs. Or occasionally Karlis The Powerslave, because he's a jerk. :P

Am I lucky beyond what the Lucky personality gives? OR what?

[Bucephalus]

Also, the monster race "mimic" can use the Spectral DSM in all its intended glory, but... only... while it's not mimicking something.

[MITZE]

Bug: Minor comp_mode Help Quibble

As per FUTURE_TOPSCORE_BERSERKER on the webserver, comp_mode affects score, though there is no * indicating so on the option and nothing in the help indicating so either.

[MITZE]

Bug: Rage-Mage, Smash, and Snow/Ice Walls

Rage-Mage's Smash doesn't appear to do anything for snow/ice walls; I'm guessing because they're new-ish and you missed/forgot altering its functionality for them.

(Also seeing people talk about Stone to Mud not working either, but I'm guessing that one's on purpose, like Fire being how you alter that kind of terrain.)

[Bucephalus]

Fantastic Frenzy does weird things with the left hand slot. It seems to take the incremental energy of any combat round lasting less than a turn (e.g. a deathblow), and add this energy to a full turn. Every left-handed deathblow with Fantastic Frenzy takes between 120 and 200 energy. This even applies to large weapons two-handed in the left hand slot, but not the right hand slot.

[Thraalbee]

Lucky negotiation

My rogue went to the Micro$oft quest without -stone to mud and failed to break the stone door to the boss. I searched my inventory and the level for anything that could help but there was nothing. I tried the tele to-spell, but it required line of sight. I tried phase and tele but the room is icky. Finally I went through all the spells and ended up trying negotiate, and lo and behold!
Evidently Bull heard me through the stones, after a few attempts I managed to buy him over for a reasonable amount of gold and the quest was completed

As a bonus he teleported out of the vault to greet me. Mistake. I reneged on the deal.