Halls of Mist 1.3.0

[Mikko Lehtinen]

What if all spellcasters had two extra skills, Spellcasting and Spell Mastery?

Spell Mastery skill would be used when your level is at least ten higher than the spell's level. Spellcasting skill would be used otherwise.

They'd be shown on character sheet like this:

13 STRENGTH
   61%  Bash         burden       30.3/108
   53%  Pierce       max weapon weight  13
                     jumping in armour  22
                     thrown range  3+blows
14 DEXTERITY
   59%  Aim          max blows           3
   55%  Jumping      current blows       2
   29%  Parry         
   72%  Slash         
10 CUNNING
   15%  Ambush       night vision        0
   38%  Perception    
   40%  Stealth       
10 KNOWLEDGE
   28%  Alchemy      Spellcasting      70%
   48%  Navigation   Spell Mastery     91%
   43%  Spell Save   known spells        6
10 AURA (max 12)
   41%  Device       spell range         8
   29%  Presence

What do you think? Are individual spell fail rates interesting enough to justify the clumsy mechanics?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A quick idea: non-spellcasters should get double the normal bonuses to Spell Save from high Knowledge. This makes it much easier to balance the stats for all classes.

[ekolis]

Do you want all power levels of spells that have multiple power levels to have the same fail rate, then? I guess that would be fair, seeing as the higher levels are already less mana-efficient, trading extra mana for more raw power over time. But if you don't intend that, you could have the base spell require a Spellcasting check, and then have a Mastery check for each additional power level, so if you want to cast Fire Bolt at the fourth power level, you'd need to pass a Spellcasting check and then three Mastery checks.

edit: and perhaps you could have the spell cast at whatever power was the last success, but cost full mana, so if you failed on the second Mastery check in the above example, you'd cast Fire Bolt at power level 2, but pay the mana cost of power level 4 as if you had succeeded.

edit2: this could also allow you to get rid of the level requirements for higher power levels, as casting high power levels would still be possible, just very difficult, with a low Mastery skill!

[Mikko Lehtinen]

All the power levels of a spell have their own level requirements so that wouldn't be a problem.

Basically all spells (and subspells) would have separate Learn and Mastery level requirements. I could handle Mastery more simply by just giving one reroll on a failed check.

The exact same mechanic would work with magic devices, also. Once you reach the device's Mastery level, you get one reroll on failed checks.

[ekolis]

Oh, Mastery isn't a skill check? It's a requirement for casting spells? Or is it both?

[ekolis]

Say, another idea... I like the "You need 14 DEX to get the full 3 blows with this weapon" messages, but how about changing them to "You need 11 DEX to get another blow with this weapon, and 14 DEX to get the full 3 blows with this weapon"? This would make it easy to know if your DEX is almost enough to get another blow!

[Squeak]

A few other thoughts:

1. priest spells - I like the changes already made. It would be nice to have a remove fear + protect from fear spell. Something else that might be interesting is a spell that temporarily doubles a god's blessing - perhaps this should be followed by some penalty such as a temporary cancellation of the blessing after the duration of the spell.
2. mage spells - I find mage spells as a whole quite boring. I think there should be less damage spells and more buff spells - things that temporarily increase stats, throwing ability etc. I think this is especially interesting with the limited mana per level.
3. Powders - they are very useful in the beginning, but it seems that higher level uniques almost always resist them. Is the determination of success only dependent on the monster they are thrown at or is it in any way determined by the players stats/skills?
4. I kind of miss the boost from being close to bookshelves. Maybe give a bonus to identify checks if you are next to a bookshelf.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Oh, Mastery isn't a skill check? It's a requirement for casting spells? Or is it both?

Here's how spellcasting would work:

To cast any spell you have learned, make a Spellcasting skill check. (Say, a 70% chance.)

If your experience level is at at least 10 higher than the spell's level, you may reroll a failed skill check once. (Two tries at 70% is 91%.)

The probabilities wouldn't be too different from current individual spell fail rates.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Say, another idea... I like the "You need 14 DEX to get the full 3 blows with this weapon" messages, but how about changing them to "You need 11 DEX to get another blow with this weapon, and 14 DEX to get the full 3 blows with this weapon"? This would make it easy to know if your DEX is almost enough to get another blow!

Yes, I've actually been planning to make it so.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A few other thoughts:

1. priest spells - I like the changes already made. It would be nice to have a remove fear + protect from fear spell. Something else that might be interesting is a spell that temporarily doubles a god's blessing - perhaps this should be followed by some penalty such as a temporary cancellation of the blessing after the duration of the spell.
2. mage spells - I find mage spells as a whole quite boring. I think there should be less damage spells and more buff spells - things that temporarily increase stats, throwing ability etc. I think this is especially interesting with the limited mana per level.
3. Powders - they are very useful in the beginning, but it seems that higher level uniques almost always resist them. Is the determination of success only dependent on the monster they are thrown at or is it in any way determined by the players stats/skills?
4. I kind of miss the boost from being close to bookshelves. Maybe give a bonus to identify checks if you are next to a bookshelf.

1. I've considered having spells like Prayer to Cyrridven in dungeon books. Mana cost would be high, but casting the spell would be identical to sacrificing a torch at Cyrridven's altar. I removed the Boldness spell when I changed the town books to always have 7 spells. Perhaps the effect could be added to Chant?

2. Temporary combat buffs are more priest's area. Permanently enchanting items (for high mana cost) might be cool for mage? Trading short term effectiveness for long term bonuses. The effects that you listed could be different crafting spells, adding abilities to non-enchanted items. Another spell I've considered is Copy Scroll.

3. Monster saves currently depend on both your and the monster's level. I'm planning to give individual saving throws to all monsters. Some high level monsters would be easy to bewitch, some low level monsters would have surprisingly high willpower.

4. Yes, why not. It makes more sense when I change Circles of Knowledge abilities to automatic but requiring two points. With the current system bookshelves and circles had too similar abilities.

[Squeak]

I think item enchantments would be nice. In general I think the mage would be more interesting if he had less direct damage spells and more spells that would enhance strategic combat.


Other ideas for mage spells:

1. Aerosolize potion - would cause a potion to explode in a cloud surrounding a monster. Potions of poison would cause a stinking cloud like effect, potions of confusion would cause confusion etc. Could replace some of the direct damage spells.

2. Telekinesis - throw one item from your inventory accurately and hard

3. Enhance wand - would cause a wand to have greater effect, perhaps at a higher charge cost

4. Tentacles - monster affected will be temporarily unable to move but can still attack you if you are adjacent and cast spells or shoot. Maybe making a successful jump roll will allow it to move again.

[Squeak]

... and perhaps mages should also have a high level spell that dispels mist monsters

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Reducing direct damage spells is problematic. Monsters have resists and vulnerabilities, and mages are aligned with either Fire or Frost. That's the reason for almost identical bolt and ball spells. I've already reduced bolt and ball spells to about half of the original EyAngband system.

Flaming Hands and Mana Ray are different damage spells. Optimizing your mana/damage ratio does require tactical thinking and moving around.

Have you tried the high level spell Curse All? It uses up a cursed item in your inventory. Other spells like this would be cool.

1. Aerosolize potion - would cause a potion to explode in a cloud surrounding a monster. Potions of poison would cause a stinking cloud like effect, potions of confusion would cause confusion etc. Could replace some of the direct damage spells.

Too much overlap with powders. All powder vials will have radius in the future if you succeed in (another) Aim skill check.

Wind Control spell is a possibility. It increases powder radius and makes it more likely that nearby phantasms dissolve. (There's already a Ring of Wind Control.)

EDIT: Enchanting powders would perhaps be more in the mage's style. The spell would turn a stack of Powder Vials of Ghost-Dark into Enchanted Powder Vials of Ghost-Dark.

2. Telekinesis - throw one item from your inventory accurately and hard

I've been thinking about Telekinesis myself. But perhaps enchanting thrown weapons would be more interesting? There will be very interesting mechanics for throwing things.

Let's call the spell Crystal Weapon. The enchanted weapon would gain a random, tremendously powerful elemental brand and a big bonus to hit, but it would shatter after one full attack or a throw.

Wise mages would first confuse a monster, and then try to score a critical hit with the crystal weapon.

3. Enhance wand - would cause a wand to have greater effect, perhaps at a higher charge cost

Sounds good.

4. Tentacles - monster affected will be temporarily unable to move but can still attack you if you are adjacent and cast spells or shoot. Maybe making a successful jump roll will allow it to move again.

There are already lots of monster status effects. This sounds a bit too similar to Earthbind.

How about turning a single wall square into a Wall of Glue? Anybody getting too close would be trapped.

I'd like to add some new terrain features that are important for spellcasters. For example, Chaos-aligned areas could have elemental vortices (terrain features, not monsters). When you shoot a vortex with a bolt of matching element, it would explode in a very powerful star burst.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A monster status effect that makes the target monster radiate a damaging aura of Fire or Frost might be tactically interesting. The monster wouldn't suffer himself but would damage nearby monsters or the player every turn.

EDIT: No, it would probably work better if the monster damaged himself, too.

[buzzkill]

I've been thinking about Telekinesis myself.

... taking objects from the floor (or even other monsters) and throwing them. Items (maybe tables) could be hurled at enemies causing damage. Smaller enemies could be thrown at walls (tables, statues) or other enemies causing some damage, but mostly stunning and fear. Just thinking out loud.

Aside, is it possible to KO monsters in Mist. I've become quite good at delivering chained criticals ("it is stunned. It is more stunned"). I was just wondering if it is possible to reach a threshold where the enemy is non-responsive.