Halls of Mist 1.3.0

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  • buzzkill
    Prophet
    • May 2008
    • 2939

    #91
    Another random thought... recovery proficiency should take no time at all. You call upon your reserves in a moment of weakness, and continue the fight without skipping a beat. Ditto berserk, maybe escape as well.
    www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
    My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.

    Comment

    • ekolis
      Knight
      • Apr 2007
      • 921

      #92
      Interesting, I've never heard of half-swording... I guess the sword's versatility must explain why heroes prefer swords!

      edit: and I have now added a paragraph on half-swording to the Real Life section of that article!
      Last edited by ekolis; October 21, 2012, 03:10.
      You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
      You are surrounded by a stasis field!
      The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!

      Comment

      • Mikko Lehtinen
        Veteran
        • Sep 2010
        • 1246

        #93
        Originally posted by buzzkill
        Another random thought... recovery proficiency should take no time at all. You call upon your reserves in a moment of weakness, and continue the fight without skipping a beat. Ditto berserk, maybe escape as well.
        Yeah, good idea. I have actually considered this seriously before.

        Comment

        • LostTemplar
          Knight
          • Aug 2009
          • 670

          #94
          Instant actions are cool. I have a lot of them in my variant.

          Comment

          • Mikko Lehtinen
            Veteran
            • Sep 2010
            • 1246

            #95
            I've come to the conclusion that Halls of Mist needs another break away from Angband conventions. I'm probably going to remove shields, bows, and polearms from the game.

            Pros:
            • I can make equipment choices more interesting. Many more ways to make weapons and gauntlets different from each other.
            • I think I can make the complete stat & skill system work much better, both mechanically and in flavour, with this reduced equipment set.
            • The equipment system becomes actually realistic -- you have a sword in one gauntleted hand, a torch and a wand in the other. All the two-handed and hand-and-a-half weapons in the game start to make sense. In addition, sword & shield didn't really make sense for either Thornwild heroes or for dungeon adventuring. Having some realism is good for the mood I'm going after.
            • I can choose a distinct time period for the weapon technology in the game: late Medieval. That's long swords with a two-handed grip & heavy armour. Templars practise martial arts that is close to what Johannes Liechtenauer taught in the 14th century. Even if all this wouldn't show in the game much, it helps me refine for myself what the setting is like. Inventing new pieces of flavour becomes more enjoyable.

            Comment

            • buzzkill
              Prophet
              • May 2008
              • 2939

              #96
              Is there a compelling reason not to return to town every chance you get? Taking the down staircase from the dungeon is exactly the same (as far as game mechanics are concerned) as returning to town and taking the down stairs, correct?
              www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
              My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.

              Comment

              • Mikko Lehtinen
                Veteran
                • Sep 2010
                • 1246

                #97
                The only real reason for not returning to town is if you want to Plunge three levels.

                Comment

                • buzzkill
                  Prophet
                  • May 2008
                  • 2939

                  #98
                  Originally posted by Mikko Lehtinen
                  The only real reason for not returning to town is if you want to Plunge three levels.
                  Do you think it's worthwhile to give players an incentive to stay in the dungeon versus returning to town. I'd like to have a reason to remain in the dungeon. A reason to refrain from returning to town unless it's really necessary for survival.
                  www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
                  My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.

                  Comment

                  • Mikko Lehtinen
                    Veteran
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 1246

                    #99
                    Yes, if we can come up with a good way to do it. I haven't yet found a way that feels right.

                    On the other hand, a good Navigation skill is supposed to be a big benefit. Staying in the dungeon shouldn't be too profitable.

                    Comment

                    • Starhawk
                      Adept
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 246

                      With all this talk about realism... are we going to patch in instant death from being hit by a giant?

                      Because, really, that should leave any "realistic" hero just a smear on the ground.

                      Comment

                      • Mikko Lehtinen
                        Veteran
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 1246

                        Realism is just a tool to be used in places where it doesn't hurt or even enhances gameplay.

                        EDIT: Maybe I should explain some of my choices a bit.

                        Removing shields: Torches are a big part of the flavour of Halls of Mist. If I can't imagine my hero carrying a sword and a torch, I lose some sense of "being there". If we design a new system so that the player's defence without a shield just as good as it was before, we've lost nothing.

                        Removing polearms: Actually I think I'm just going to remove non-axe polearms. Why? To make skill names Bash, Slash, and Pierce work. Bash = attacking with a blunt weapon. Slash = attacking lightly armored opponents with an edged weapon. Pierce = attacking heavily armored opponents with an edged weapon.

                        "Attacking" includes also thrown weapons. Pierce is always lower than Slash, because blades are clearly better against light armor. Blunt weapons use the same skill for both light and heavy armor. Usually Bash skill is lower than Slash but higher than Pierce.

                        After some serious pondering, I've realized that it would be hard to make the game work without bows. So they're back in. Even though you can't wield a bow and a torch at the same time. For some reason it doesn't bother me like the sword + shield + torch combination.
                        Last edited by Mikko Lehtinen; October 22, 2012, 07:14.

                        Comment

                        • LostTemplar
                          Knight
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 670

                          You cannot just wield a bow with something else since it is two handed. Bow slot was allways thought not like a wield slot, but just as a quick access to another weapon.

                          Comment

                          • Mikko Lehtinen
                            Veteran
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 1246

                            Bow only makes sense if you imagine that the character drops the torch on the ground when he shoots. This is just abstracted away.

                            Comment

                            • buzzkill
                              Prophet
                              • May 2008
                              • 2939

                              Originally posted by Mikko Lehtinen
                              Yes, if we can come up with a good way to do it. I haven't yet found a way that feels right.

                              On the other hand, a good Navigation skill is supposed to be a big benefit. Staying in the dungeon shouldn't be too profitable.
                              What about a possible boost to luck for each consecutive descent, a (definite) boost for each dive, and boost x2 for each plunge. These temporary boosts would only last until the player returns to town. I've no idea of how luck actually works, so the numbers may have to be adjusted. I don't know about anyone else, but I typically have trouble hanging in the early dungeon for more than 4 or 5 levels, descending 1 level at a time. I've never felt the urge to dive in Mist... this could be an incentive.

                              And/or strengthen the Duke's townies every time the player returns to town (rather than based on something like MaxDepth).
                              www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
                              My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.

                              Comment

                              • ekolis
                                Knight
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 921

                                Originally posted by Mikko Lehtinen
                                If I can't imagine my hero carrying a sword and a torch, I lose some sense of "being there". If we design a new system so that the player's defence without a shield just as good as it was before, we've lost nothing.
                                Can't smaller shields can be worn on the arm, leaving your hand free? Of course, then they become more an extension of your gauntlets than an actual defensive barrier...

                                What makes shields interesting, though, is the mechanics you can up with for blocking with them. If those mechanics could be transferred to gauntlets, weapons, and maybe even torches, then truly nothing would be lost!

                                Implementing realism in equipment does make one feature easier: player dolls a la Crawl!
                                You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
                                You are surrounded by a stasis field!
                                The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!

                                Comment

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