Angband 4.2.1

[backwardsEric]

I'm wondering if perhaps it was a bug fixed between the release build and the current nightlies. I'm playing the nightlies, but my partner just updated their version and only has Windows.

In the most recently nightly, there was a change to the displayed thrown damage when inspecting an item, but I don't see a change since 4.2.1 that would explain a difference in the displayed shooting damage.

[mrfy]

AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference between the Windows build and any other version. Has anyone else seen this?

I'm wondering if perhaps it was a bug fixed between the release build and the current nightlies. I'm playing the nightlies, but my partner just updated their version and only has Windows.

[drquicksilver]

AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference between the Windows build and any other version. Has anyone else seen this?

Every time I saw incredibly low damage calculations it was because I was very hungry.

[Nick]

Windows release version seems to have a bug where damage from ammo isn't calculated correctly. With a longbow of power (+14,+15), ammo of arrows (+0,+0) gives average 15.9 damage. seems awfully low. Has this been fixed in the nightlies? I don't see it in the most recent MacOS version but the Windows build doesn't seem to be working.

AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference between the Windows build and any other version. Has anyone else seen this?

[wobbly]

Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.

Move speed reduces the energy cost of moving. A normal action takes 100 energy. At +1 move it costs 50 energy (only movement not other actions), +shots on a bow work the same.

They stack in the sense that if you have both you gain energy faster & use less.

[Sphara]

OK, since we're discussing speed, somepne please patiently explain to me like I'm a n00b what is happening with my extra moves, attacks, etc. (Because I'm only one or two ranks higher than n00b.)

I picked up Sting a while ago, "+3 speed" and "+2 attack speed," and then the Pair of Leather Boots of Wormtongue just dropped, "+1 movement speed."

I noticed that the boots do not alter the "Fast (+3)" on the Angband main window. The plus three is from Sting, obviously.

I also noticed that the number of blows jumped to 3 per turn. Again, that looks like Sting's +2 attack speed.

What are the boots doing?

Also, wrt slow, my Wand of Slow Monster and my Staff of Slow Monsters appear to behave differently, especially against faster mobs. Specifically, the staff appears to have about half the effect of the wand. Are these accurate observations?

Char dump attached. I hope.

As far as I understand it:
If you have +3 Speed and +1 movement speed, your speed is +13 WHEN YOU ARE WALKING. As long as you do ANY OTHER action (attack, eat, zap a wand), your speed is +3.

For slowness items, staves can be resisted but zap from a wand of slow monster cannot. Monster is either completely immune to slowing (very rare: trees, aether things, kavlax resist it) or is affected.

People who know the code, please correct me if I happen to be wrong.

[bughunter]

OK, since we're discussing speed, somepne please patiently explain to me like I'm a n00b what is happening with my extra moves, attacks, etc. (Because I'm only one or two ranks higher than n00b.)

I picked up Sting a while ago, "+3 speed" and "+2 attack speed," and then the Pair of Leather Boots of Wormtongue just dropped, "+1 movement speed."

I noticed that the boots do not alter the "Fast (+3)" on the Angband main window. The plus three is from Sting, obviously.

I also noticed that the number of blows jumped to 3 per turn. Again, that looks like Sting's +2 attack speed.

What are the boots doing?

Also, wrt slow, my Wand of Slow Monster and my Staff of Slow Monsters appear to behave differently, especially against faster mobs. Specifically, the staff appears to have about half the effect of the wand. Are these accurate observations?

Char dump attached. I hope.

[mrfy]

Windows release version seems to have a bug where damage from ammo isn't calculated correctly. With a longbow of power (+14,+15), ammo of arrows (+0,+0) gives average 15.9 damage. seems awfully low. Has this been fixed in the nightlies? I don't see it in the most recent MacOS version but the Windows build doesn't seem to be working.

[lea2501]

Movement speed is its own thing that only applies to movement, and "Moves +1" cannot be translated to +1 speed, +10 speed or +anything speed, it just means "2 moves/turn" (which really means "energy consumption for walking moves is divided by 2"...). Movement speed is more comparable to things like extra shots - think of 2 shots/turn.

Thanks! now i think i understand, so "+N movement speed" and "+N speed" are like different things.

[lea2501]

Extra movement speed is GREAT for classes that like to snipe from a distance, like mages and rangers. It makes it so much easier to get out of melee range. When walking/running, it can effectively neuter a base speed advantage that many monsters would otherwise have on you.

But are "+1 movement speed" and "+1 speed" different? i can imagine the first is only for movement and the second is also for actions, like spells, attacking, etc, right?

but how the act together? if i have "+1 movement speed" in one item and "+1 speed" in other... do i have like "+2 movement speed" for movement, and "+1 speed" for actions?

[wxman]

Moves +1 is double footspeed, moves +2 is triple. Is stacks fully with overall speed, so if you are triple speed in both you're moving at 9x total, for example.

Extra movement speed is GREAT for classes that like to snipe from a distance, like mages and rangers. It makes it so much easier to get out of melee range. When walking/running, it can effectively neuter a base speed advantage that many monsters would otherwise have on you.

[Sideways]

FrogComposband has a speed help, most of it is applicable to V too, though not everything is (in particular, V does not have energy randomness).

The short short version is that +0 is 1.0x, between -3 (0.7x) and +26 (3.6x) every +1 to speed means another +0.1x to the multiplier and outside that range speed follows a weird table there's no need to worry about too much because @ will spend most of its life in the linear range. (Technically, speed always follows a weird table, that table just happens to be linear from -3 to +26.) +70 (4.9x) is the highest speed possible, but you don't need to get anywhere near it.

The returns from adding more speed are diminishing for two reasons; firstly, going from +0/1.0x to +10/2.0x doubles your speed but going from +10/2.0x to +20/3.0x is only a 50% increase; secondly, the table itself gives diminishing returns after +26, so +30 is only 3.8x and not 4.0x. (If you want to look at the actual table for clarity, you can see it here; it's also given in the FrogComposband help.)

Regular speed applies to everything (so doubling your speed effectively also doubles your damage output, because you can deal the same amount of damage in half the time). Basically, at 2x speed, you get twice as many turns compared to monsters as you would at 1x speed and four times as many as you would at 0.5x speed. Movement speed is its own thing that only applies to movement, and "Moves +1" cannot be translated to +1 speed, +10 speed or +anything speed, it just means "2 moves/turn" (which really means "energy consumption for walking moves is divided by 2"...). Movement speed is more comparable to things like extra shots - think of 2 shots/turn.

The short short short version is more speed is better.

[lea2501]

Moves +1 is double footspeed, moves +2 is triple. Is stacks fully with overall speed, so if you are triple speed in both you're moving at 9x total, for example.

where i can read in detail about speed and the multiplier stuff? its very confusing for me really and i fail to understand the concept of speed like +2 and the Nx one

[DavidMedley]

Moves +1 is double footspeed, moves +2 is triple. Is stacks fully with overall speed, so if you are triple speed in both you're moving at 9x total, for example.

[lea2501]

Another new thing i noticed just now playing 4.2.1 is this "Moves +1" in the status bar at the botton, what does it means? obviously its related to my "+1 movement speed" that one equipment provides, but how its the relationship with a +2 speed, etc? its even the same?