Angband 4.2.1

[lea2501]

Is this known or been fixed already?

Fighting Beorn with an axe Beorn dropped.

How are you playing with those mini windows embebbed in the main window with no borders?

[Sphara]

Is this known or been fixed already?

Fighting Beorn with an axe Beorn dropped.

[Egavactip]

While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.)

"+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot

I'd prefer shooting rate over shooting speed but at least shooting speed occurs in the clear context of missile weapons, whereas movement speed and speed both involve character movement through the dungeon, it seems. Very confusing.

[Pete Mack]

With +3 speed and fast walk, your walking speed is increased by 2×, not by +10: i.e it becomes+16. In general, fast actions take 1/2 normal energy, be it walking, shooting, or casting. Note that Fast walk with +1 extra shot or fast cast guarantees full pillardance capability against same-speed monsters.

[Sideways]

It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.

While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.)

"+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot

[Nick]

So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy?

As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?

Yes, that's right.

[bughunter]

This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.

So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy?

As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?

[Nick]

Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.

This is essentially correct, but possibly not clear. To be absolutely precise, the player's speed as presented is an index into this table (where the 10 line consists of speeds +10 to +19, etc):

	/* -100 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -90 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -80 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -70 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -60 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
	/*  -30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
	/*  -20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
	/*  -10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
	/*    0 */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
	/*  +10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
	/*  +20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
	/*  +30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
	/*  +40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
	/*  +50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
	/*  +60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
	/*  +70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
	/*  +80 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,

So each game tick the player accumulates the amount of energy indicated - at 0 speed 10, at +3 speed 13, at -10 speed 5, and so on. Once the player's energy reaches 100, they get a turn - so that takes 10 ticks at normal speed, 8 ticks at +3 speed (8x13=104), 20 ticks at -10 speed.

Move speed reduces the energy cost of moving. A normal action takes 100 energy. At +1 move it costs 50 energy (only movement not other actions), +shots on a bow work the same.

This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.

Also on what we call this - it's been traditional in Angband for a while to call extra blows "attack speed" and extra shots "shooting speed", which is why I went with "movement speed" for extra moves. Maybe it would be better to just use extra * for all these.

[whartung]

Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.

So, is that how the game works?

It simply adds "energy" to every entity that's active. Then, for that tick, it gives an action to anyone with more than 10 energy, and then deducts 10 energy. It repeatedly does this until no one active is over 10, then it fires another tick?

    // run tick
    // add energy
    for e in active_entities
        e.energy = e.energy + e.speed;
        if e.energy > 10 then acting_entities.add(e);
    end for

    // consume energy
    while not acting_entities.empty
        for e in acting_entities
            if e.energy > 10 then
                action(e);
                e.energy = e.energy - 10;
                if e.energy < 10 then active_entities.remove(e);
            end if
        end for
    end while

[DavidMedley]

As far as I understand it:
If you have +3 Speed and +1 movement speed, your speed is +13 WHEN YOU ARE WALKING. As long as you do ANY OTHER action (attack, eat, zap a wand), your speed is +3.

People who know the code, please correct me if I happen to be wrong.

You are close, but speeds do not add like you suggest; they multiply. In your example it should be 1.3x general speed but effectively 2.6x speed for walking (aka +16 or so, not +13).

[lea2501]

It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.

I think that its okay to name it with "speed" and "movement speed" etc, but i think we surely need a official guide to speed with detailed effects, and differences between them, how different speeds interact between them, etc, so a novice player like me can go for reference.

[Egavactip]

As far as I understand it:
If you have +3 Speed and +1 movement speed, your speed is +13 WHEN YOU ARE WALKING. As long as you do ANY OTHER action (attack, eat, zap a wand), your speed is +3.

For slowness items, staves can be resisted but zap from a wand of slow monster cannot. Monster is either completely immune to slowing (very rare: trees, aether things, kavlax resist it) or is affected.

People who know the code, please correct me if I happen to be wrong.

It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.

[PowerWyrm]

When I activate an unIDed ring of lightning in the latest V, I learn the RES_ELEC rune. In my variant I don't. I tried to track down the reason, and didn't see anything different in the code until I checked the "use object" code and found out that V uses dir=0 (player spot) when using items that can be aimed while I use a random direction. The problem is: when you use the player spot, you activate the project_p() code with the player as parameter instead of having that parameter NULL. I think this is a bug, as this is not intended to harm the player (which is later on checked in the code) so the "player learn from being harmed by elemental attack" should not been triggered.

[mrfy]

Is the low damage with O combat (birth_percent_damage)? O combat really depends on high dice and slays/brands, so unbranded 1d4 arrows don't do much damage even with a longbow of power. (Even with branded seeker ammo I think O archery is still weaker than normal archery, but regular ammo's where you really feel the pain.)

Turns out he does have it turned on, but didn't mean to. Thanks for the explanation.

[Sideways]

Is the low damage with O combat (birth_percent_damage)? O combat really depends on high dice and slays/brands, so unbranded 1d4 arrows don't do much damage even with a longbow of power. (Even with branded seeker ammo I think O archery is still weaker than normal archery, but regular ammo's where you really feel the pain.)