Issues on current master

[Nick]

I was in a GV sorting through stuff on the floor. I did have a ring of Firmament randart. Here is the artifact list:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...11986239360212

Right, thanks. Am I right in thinking this is not the latest nightly? There have been a lot of new builds recently...

[Estie]

I was in a GV sorting through stuff on the floor. I did have a ring of Firmament randart. Here is the artifact list:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=78582611986239360212

[Nick]

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...17308083246203

Game crashed and created a dump file "pile_error.txt".

Thank you. Any idea what you were doing at the time? Also, did you have a randart Ring of Firmament? Because that's unintended.

[Estie]

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=42898217308083246203

Game crashed and created a dump file "pile_error.txt".

[Estie]

Last week's nightly, but i just started. I did a full run on a build from 2 weeks ago and had attack bonuses on gloves, helmet, cloak, boots, rings. I have seen a +2 dmg on armor as well.

Yes, last weeks nightly seems to have at least some damage bonus - i have a cloak with +7. But +2 is irrelevant - it isnt going to affect your decision whether to use that armor or not. I am probably the one here who cares least about AC, but even I would rather get AC on an armour than +2 damage.

Assuming you have 500 damage/round and 5 attacks, those +2 woul make that 510 dam/round or 2%.
If you fight a boss with 10k HP, the fight takes 20 rounds without that armour bonus and 19,6 rounds with it.
(And since Derakon is bound to read this, I need to point out that yes I am aware there is a nonzero chance of missing. But my point stands :P)

[Sky]

Last week's nightly, but i just started. I did a full run on a build from 2 weeks ago and had attack bonuses on gloves, helmet, cloak, boots, rings. I have seen a +2 dmg on armor as well.

[Estie]

Also randarts have +dmg on just about everything

You must be playing an older version; the newest nightly seems to have no damage modifiers at all.

[Sky]

Playing standarts i find cambeleg almost always and fingolfin about 40% of my runs. Because dex tends to max easier on a HE warrior i do often swap to combat for the sauron/morgoth run.

The problem in standart v is that all the gloves are basically the same but slightly better. In randarts, each glove does something different, be it speed, stat boost, activation, or unusual resist.

I very rarely see anything over (+0,+3) for cesti, but the tradeoff is worth it. Also randarts have +dmg on just about everything, and i eveb found a ring of power .. i mean, a BAND of power (+15,+13) +5 spd, two immunities, tons of stat gain, ESP Fa etc..
Puts the one ring to shame.

It does suck when you want to build a ranger and the game hasnt created a single artifact bow and only artifact lanterns for light, but then you find boots +13 spd +3 CON rChaos and everything feels fine.

Didn't Elessar have (+5,+5) originally? And one of the dragon armors too...

[Estie]

Damage modifier is all but guaranteed on gloves and there are other items with it - Haradrim, the helm that used to aggaravate, and of course the rings of power have a smallish amount. If you find any of these, you are going to try to incorporate them in to the kit because all other modifiers either cap out or are on diminishing returns. The benefit from damage is linear.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

@Derakon--I haven't seen them in at least my last dozen serious games, and I haven't used randarts in that time. They are very much not 'gimme' items. As some confirmation, none of the winners of the current competition saw them. I agree they show up occasionally, but they are pretty rare overall.

Cambeleg didn't show up in my comp game, but it did in the game I played a couple days ago while testing out the new nightlies. They are rare, but not so rare as Ringil or Deathwreaker (I did find DW in the comp). It seems right to me that the top artifacts are rare finds.

[Pete Mack]

@Derakon--I haven't seen them in at least my last dozen serious games, and I haven't used randarts in that time. They are very much not 'gimme' items. As some confirmation, none of the winners of the current competition saw them. I agree they show up occasionally, but they are pretty rare overall.

[Derakon]

@Estie--given that I end up with gloves of Combat (or occasionally Cammithrim) in the late game even with standard artifacts, that hardly counts as a change. I haven't seen one of the two big artifact gloves in years. That said, I agree lack of damage on artifact rings (and gloves) is a real problem.

By "two big artifact gloves" do you mean Cambeleg and Fingolfin? I don't recall them being especially rare the last time I played standarts. *shrug*

[Pete Mack]

@Estie--given that I end up with gloves of Combat (or occasionally Cammithrim) in the late game even with standard artifacts, that hardly counts as a change. I haven't seen one of the two big artifact gloves in years. That said, I agree lack of damage on artifact rings (and gloves) is a real problem.

[Estie]

Starting out with no base properties will certainly solve.

It seems there is no way for artifacts to pick up (substantial) +damage ?
I see many + accuracy randarts but none or very low (like +3) damage mods, which makes rings of damage and gauntlets of power/combat the theoretical best option in slot.

[Pete Mack]

Now that the slot balance issue is apparently solved, the biggest trouble I've had with randarts is the mismatch between base weapon type and nominal artifact power. The usual result is that too many weapons end up as either glorified defenders (too many resists and stat bonuses), or glorified weak Gondolin weapons (too many slays and brands.)

The real problem here is base damage needs to be a significant factor in weapon power, in all but a limited set of (usually high CON) defensive weapons.