New nightly

[Magnate]

Again, I'm still on an older nightly, so this may have been spotted:

A Shovel of Earthquakes (1d2) (+14, +14) <+2, +6>
Dropped by ...

+2 strength, tunneling.
+6 tunneling.
Branded with acid.

So, is that +8 tunneling??

Yes, it is, and it's a bug - it's ticket #1404.

[Timo Pietilä]

Again, I'm still on an older nightly, so this may have been spotted:

A Shovel of Earthquakes (1d2) (+14, +14) <+2, +6>
Dropped by ...

+2 strength, tunneling.
+6 tunneling.
Branded with acid.

So, is that +8 tunneling??

Why would anybody use such a shovel anyway? Previous earthquake shovels weren't useless always, but if STR bonus is restricted to +2 or so then they are. Double-PVAL for this particular item is not needed.

[Spacebux]

Double-tunneling tags

Again, I'm still on an older nightly, so this may have been spotted:

A Shovel of Earthquakes (1d2) (+14, +14) <+2, +6>
Dropped by ...

+2 strength, tunneling.
+6 tunneling.
Branded with acid.

So, is that +8 tunneling??

[AnonymousHero]

I'd also like the moon. On a stick.

Of course, if you get it, you'll complain that you don't really want it or that it's not really the moon on a stick...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERDUbAv8Qz0

[Max Stats]

I'd also like the moon. On a stick.

Oooh, so close, but we are all out of sticks at the moment.

[PowerDiver]

The problem with DSM squelching is that DSMs are already egos. If you look at them as a generic base, with an ego added that is described by a color, that maps very well onto the system of armors without flags before adding the various armor egos.

When you put egos on DSMs, suddenly you change the game to require squelching in the presence of *two* [effective] egos. Things get much more complicated.

If you think that the player ought to be able to differentiate between squelch rules for a ring of resist fire and a ring of resist cold, because the base items have different flags, then you ought to think that the player needs to be able to differentiate squelch rules for red DSM vs white DSM.

[buzzkill]

But doesn't the prospect of a new set of problems excite you, buzz!?

There's something to be said of this and most politicians, which is about all I can say without catching flack. Just an observation.

[scud]

Price based squelching if implemented IMO we end up being different, but no better. Trading the set of problems we have now for a slightly different set of problems, yet to be known.

But doesn't the prospect of a new set of problems excite you, buzz!?

Actually I'd really like the squelch interface to allow me to:

a. squelch all armour which doesn't have [user defined] resistance(s)

b. squelch all non-missile weapons which don't do at least [user defined] damage to 'others'

c. squelch all potions of attribute while I'm at my maximum for that attribute

I'd also like the moon. On a stick.

[buzzkill]

IMO this it totally the wrong way to go, special-casing particular tvals.

You're probably correct... if we had something that worked better to use instead, which, after exhaustive discussion, we don't. Why not just special case them for now and see how that works out (as seems to be the philosophy in current dev), until we come up with a real solution that will fit all cases.

Is it perfect, no. Is it better for the end user, even if it's not an ideal solution from a dev point of view, yes.

Price based squelching if implemented IMO we end up being different, but no better. Trading the set of problems we have now for a slightly different set of problems, yet to be known.

[scud]

The main issue that comes to mind is that we would need to show the sale value of an item in its description, which we have debated previously and decided against (spoily).

Fired with enthusiasm for the idea and in the interests of research I went on a quick weapon hunt prior to my second cup of coffee...



ALWAYS HAVE THAT SECOND CUP.

Surely it's not necessary to make item values visible? You don't have to have played the game long to have a pretty good idea of what something is worth. It's a squelchy timesaver rather than a cheat.

In the early game when there are still things you want/need to buy, you don't want to waste time hauling sub-2k (say) weaponry and armour up to the surface. Obviously you've still have had the trouble/expense of IDing the thing.

Once money becomes no object (which doesn't take long) you have to wade through an awful lot of tatty weapons to find something worthy of consideration. Again, you still need to ID. A high value squelch setting would simply get rid of all those tiresome *slays* and Blesseds and such. Hell, I'd happily see it squelch artifacts: what use is a *thanc once you're strong and dextrous enough to wave something heavier?

It puts a lot of faith in the pricing system, of course. Some 'tat' seems to have exceptionally high value placed on it (I'm looking at you, Defenders), but I'm not aware of any significant under-valuations.

[Magnate]

Yes please. 'Elven cloaks' get their own category; surely DSM could be added.

IMO this it totally the wrong way to go, special-casing particular tvals. It means a total redesign every time someone adds an important new item.

Not sure about weaponry, though... could it be done by value, ie if it's got an RRP in excess of 50k it doesn't get squished? That would weed out the elemental brands and Defenders, the 'standard' extra blows and Gondolins etc, but leave you with the good Chaoses, Slicings, and Furies. If the squish-price were player-definable then all the better.

This, OTOH, is a brilliant solution. Instead of the awkward quality squelch thresholds we have now ("good", "excellent without high resists" etc.), people can just put a price threshold into each category, and squelch anything below that value. The main issue that comes to mind is that we would need to show the sale value of an item in its description, which we have debated previously and decided against (spoily).

People who don't like power-based pricing will hate this, of course - and some of them have very strong views on squelching. And it isn't going to be an option, that's for sure. So it's probably time for a poll.

[Derakon]

Base PDSM is missing nexus and nether; you got nexus as your bonus resistance from the Permanence ego.

Also, PDSM should probably lose RES_CONFU since it's not a resistance any more.

[scud]

I have also always wanted what I considered "exotic" base types (like blades of chaos, DSM, etc) to be handled separately from "normal" weapons/armor.

Yes please. 'Elven cloaks' get their own category; surely DSM could be added. Not sure about weaponry, though... could it be done by value, ie if it's got an RRP in excess of 50k it doesn't get squished? That would weed out the elemental brands and Defenders, the 'standard' extra blows and Gondolins etc, but leave you with the good Chaoses, Slicings, and Furies. If the squish-price were player-definable then all the better.

Now CL47 and only a single pair of BoS so far (and those a measly +6). Has the correction to the 'Supermarket Sweep Shoe Shop Special' made BoS less common than they were In The Pre-SSSSS Days, or have I just being unlucky so far? I'm wearing my Wormtongues which I found at CL43 – they and/or Dal-i-thalion always used to be waiting for me on the floor at 500'.

However I do have very attractive Chaos DSM of Permanence (rPois, Chaos, Disen). Which is nice.

I finally traded in the Wormtongues for some strappy sandals of Speed +9 at CL49. I'm pretty sure that was only the second pair I've found. I've lost count of the number of sub +10 RoS I've chucked away.

I've also just received an armour upgrade...



My first ever PDSM, I think. I don't wish to sound ungrateful but is nether always missing, or is one higher resistance randomly omitted?

[Timo Pietilä]

When casting Meteor Swarm (and, I expect this happens in other situations, such as multi-swing melee):

The Balance drake screams in pain.
The Balance drake dies.
The Balance drake flees in terror!

... wrong sequence of messages.

r9a0d219cc4

There was a discussion a while back that meteor swarm should work like separate bolts each. What you are seeing is all the meteors striking the same target (even that it was already dead after two). If that meteor swarm behavior is changed that message problem should also go away.

[Magnate]

When casting Meteor Swarm (and, I expect this happens in other situations, such as multi-swing melee):

The Balance drake screams in pain.
The Balance drake dies.
The Balance drake flees in terror!

... wrong sequence of messages.

r9a0d219cc4

Good catch - I think this is a regression. I've added it to #726 in any case.