BOOM!!! Angband in 2hrs30min!!!! (with video)

[kineahora]

just for a laugh i downloaded 3.0.6, which is the version i started with, and generated a few artifact spoilers. I found a ring of +10 to everything, rings of power with +26 to damage, bows 6x with +3 shots, weapons with +3 blows, Palantirs, an artifact set with multiple instances of +2/3 blows on helms, cloaks.

I think that the history of Angband is pretty much playing the game and checking what is the most broken thing you can exploit, and then exploting it. Over. And Over. Again.

Well, my recollection, from playing the progenitor of this game from around 1988 on a mainframe---was that Moria and Umoria were *way* harder in 1988 than any of these versions being discussed.

For instance the offscreen AMHD insta-death from an unresistable poison breath (there was no poison resistance). And it seemed I had to kill tons of monsters just to find armor of (R) and a weapon of (HA). This was before artifacts existed...

And you had to do the "grape jelly trick" to get your hitpoints up since fixed hitpoint gain while you had low CON was the norm, so you had to wait until you maxed your CON and then get your life drained safely by the grape Jelly, and then regain your levels with the new maxed CON.

On the other hand--once you had two rings of speed, you were pretty much way faster than anything, so then it was just about avoiding any AMHDs (or doing a pillar dance with them) until you found the Balrog...

[PowerDiver]

Eddie-
4.2 is still easier than 3.0, except for Rogue and Necromancer. 4.2 rogue is fragile and has almost no buff spells. (It's kinda boring.)

Maybe that's why I am not finding 4.2 to be trivial. Rogue was my go-to character, so that's what I went with. The main benefit is unlimited recharging. I'm playing it as a fighter with detection and unlimited telSelf and lots of wands. Assuming YASD is in my future, what class would you suggest for me next?

[Estie]

Maybe that's why I am not finding 4.2 to be trivial. Rogue was my go-to character, so that's what I went with. The main benefit is unlimited recharging. I'm playing it as a fighter with detection and unlimited telSelf and lots of wands. Assuming YASD is in my future, what class would you suggest for me next?

While you didnt ask me I dont think, I would suggest the new ranger. I have mixed feelings about it but the reception has been overwhelmingly positive by everyone else.

[Pete Mack]

Eddie--
Everyone should try blackguard once. It starts out hard, but gets crazy during stat gain. The buff spells are very nice.
Plus new paladin is more interesting than 3.0.
PS: don't fight ungoliant in single combat unless you have extra light radius. You can still win, but it is costly. (btdt)

[PowerDiver]

While you didnt ask me I dont think, I would suggest the new ranger. I have mixed feelings about it but the reception has been overwhelmingly positive by everyone else.

I didn't mean to exclude anyone! It's just Pete specifically called out the rogue class, so I quoted him.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Grotug]

I would be playing 4.1.3 as for me that version is the most fun, but I feel like the artifacts are more balanced in the current version (4.2.4) but I find the "slow monster wand" trope to be a bit tedious: it's so powerful that you'd be silly not to employ it, but it feels gimmicky, especially since you can recharge wands of slow monster by dropping them in the store!

I feel like patterns are more noticeable in 4.2.x than they were in 4.1.3; a drawback of certain (logical) enemy associations--like bullroarer is almost always accompanied by an entourage of scruffy hobbits and now you often find a ranger, a blackguard and a paladin together. These sort of patterns hurt the replay value in my opinion. (Though I like that the orc uniques often appear together or that the yeek uniques do as well, so I dunno really--maybe I just haven't gotten used to the changes in 4.2 because I was so used to the way things were in 4.1.3 and earlier). But I used to die in all sorts of ways in 4.1.3 in the early game. In 4.2.4 it seems to be the same way: by a group of early mage-type characters or by a druid being summoned by a priest and paralyzing me or runaway priest summoning in general (which often happens before I've acquired _Teleport).

I'm only killing off Rangers these days (Hobbit Ranger almost exclusively--though I just killed off a HT Ranger when he failed to activate an early Healing staff 5x in a row). Oh, which brings me to the other thing that bothers me slightly about 4.2 and that is the power of throwing shots. Why does throwing shots do the same damage as shooting them with an average sling?

[kineahora]

Eddie--
Everyone should try blackguard once. It starts out hard, but gets crazy during stat gain. The buff spells are very nice.
Plus new paladin is more interesting than 3.0.
PS: don't fight ungoliant in single combat unless you have extra light radius. You can still win, but it is costly. (btdt)

I LOVE Paladins and use single combat against all summoners bar none. In fact this class is what got me playing again because I *hated* having to constantly carve out anti-summoning corridors.

Not sure what the problem is with light radius once you have the monster in single combat arena--the problem with light radius is *getting* the monster into single combat because you cant target it...

[Pete Mack]

Not sure what the problem is with light radius once you have the monster in single combat arena--the problem with light radius is *getting* the monster into single combat because you cant target it...

Ungoliant has a powerful aura of darkness. If you don't have enough light, you'll be blind in melee range--which means no unlimited heal.

[kineahora]

Ungoliant has a powerful aura of darkness. If you don't have enough light, you'll be blind in melee range--which means no unlimited heal.

Ah, I guess I always have an art Light when I get to her. Still looking for one rt now but I havent even done stat gain so...

[Pete Mack]

Here's the character. Note the stat stick wooden torch

the Wooden Torch 'Antante' <+2, +5>
     Dropped by a kobold archer at 1150 feet (level 23)
     
     +2 constitution.
     +5 infravision.
     Provides resistance to Acid.
     Cannot be harmed by Fire.
     Intensity 2 light.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=24329

[Sky]

realistically the only thing that has made Angband "less difficult" is that the breath weapons have been substantially nerferd, because 1. they decrease in damage over the distance, and 2. they decrease in damage based on the health of the breather.
Previously, a Terrasque breath was 1600 damage, no matter what; from the other side of the map, 1600 damage. From a 1hp nearly-dead Terrasque, still 1600 damage.

Everything else has been changed to make the game, in a sense, more difficult. No more Globe of Invulnerability, no more artifacts with +14 DEX, no more rings of +23 Spd, mobs AI has improved, the dungeon has gotten more complex, you can't brand the Glave Of Pain anymore, no more Palantir for everyone - that activated for Enlightment, less blows from a Warrior, etc.

Yeah ok you don't need to spend hours picking up stuff from the floor to Identify YET ANOTHER Sword of Slay Dragon, i'm crying.

[Cryomaniac]

Wasn't breath damage always dependant on monster HP? IIRC, 2.9.x already had this mechanic. Tarrasque has a ton of HP, though - it'll be a while before it starts dealing less than 1600 unresisted breath damage.

[Nick]

Wasn't breath damage always dependant on monster HP?

Not in Sky's fantasy version

[kineahora]

Not in Sky's fantasy version

Yeah I don't even think in Moria and UMoria that breath damage didn't decrease with monster health (it always did far as I recall)--An AMHD at full health always breathed for more poison damage than you had health though...

Monster mob behaviour is *way* more intelligent now--Gravity hounds truly *suck*, and Aether Hounds, Tindalos, Aether vortex, storm of unmagic, great Wyrms of Annihilation...

fractional speed is a huge improvement over the "old days"...

[Pete Mack]

@sky--
No. Monsters are now more intelligent, which helps offset breath attenuation. (3.0 monster intelligence made the game essentially unwinnable, so was useless.)

The big difference is quality of loot. In 3.0, you were lucky to find even one "big 3" ego weapon. (Even a MoD of *Slay evil* was an endgame find.) And boots of speed of any quality showed up maybe once every 5 games. Finally, the 3 rings of power are more powerful: +5 speed is way better than +1 or +2.

And GOI has bern absent for a lot longer than 3.0