Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[bron]

Wow. This thread is mighty serendipitous. I just last night managed to complete the "no-artifacts polearm-master" character I've been experimenting with for the last month or more (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13995). Actually, I had been trying to do a *Naugrim* no-artifacts polearm-master, but never could quite manage to do that (without save-scumming anyway).

This run was definately challenging. Polearm mastery is a lot of fun, but after considerable experience with it, I consider it worse than just using a sword (or an axe for a Naugrim). I was surprised at how much harder no-artifacts seemed to be for me. Most Sil artifacts are not overpowering, so I hadn't expected playing without them to make much difference. But (subjectively at least) the game seemed much harder without them. I hope to spend my lunch hour writing up something about this character for the After Adventure Report.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Your plain starting stats challenge sounds grueling. I couldn't do it... I can't even to the edain with all their points, which would have to be a little better.

[HallucinationMushroom]

If it makes you feel any less embarrassed, my win to death ratio is really bad and it took me, and, I would guess most everyone, a good amount of time before they bagged their first win. For me, a lot of the fun, if not all with Sil, is the character build. The actual fighting and collecting loot isn't a draw for me like it is for me with say, Entroband/Heng, or O/FA. So, I don't mind dying many many times trying out wonky concepts. I learned a lot about the game from asking questions and trying out strange builds. There is a lot of depth in Sil, playing with restrictions really helps train my brain.

[taptap]

For people like me it is quite embarassing that Sil seems too easy for some that they discuss challenges... Either way: How about not spending the initial 13 stat points and just taking the plain starting stats?

[HallucinationMushroom]

I've always assumed that song of slaying wouldn't apply to a blunt weapon. If not, that would be good to know... and probably should be fixed as well. I've never thought to try.

I managed the throneroom with melee and evasion only http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13744, and was standing on the doggone crown and couldn't get the dang silmaril out. I think I could've won that one if I had managed a good roll, or something sharp along the way. A fun challenge, only possible now with the change to trancing.

Melee only would have to be impossible, I think. A fun competition would be who could amass the most experience with only melee, or kill the deepest unique, or some such arbitrary goal. In this same vein, I've often thought about which 1 skill is the most important. If you could win with only one skill, would it be stealth? Let's say you got lucky and found angrist, could you manage to hit the crown twice to knock it off, nab a silmaril and get out?
I know I couldn't do it, but, it seems plausible.

[HugoVirtuoso]

I've managed the first one on that list. I suspect the others are a good deal harder...

I've won (by collecting 1 Sil) with the first one during the pre-v1.1 days as well, and Melee/Evasion/Will is the staple of most of my characters.

[Psi]

Win with Melee/Evasion/Will only, Melee/Evasion only, Melee only.

I've managed the first one on that list. I suspect the others are a good deal harder...

[Psi]

Considering the shovel in all serious though: If you had a really good smith, you could make a poison and fire branded shovel, at a ludicrous cost of around 58. So, 4d2. Let's say you have power (4d3), can achieve 9 strength through native strength and herb and potion (4d12), have momentum and 4 sources of extra damage, say from damage rings and maybe an artifact glove the kind that Psi makes that nets you +1 Str and +1 Damage (4d16), take rapid attack (4d13x2) and have song of slaying in the upper teens, kill everything at the throne room and get a really high melee bonus (+40 x2 4d12). Unfortunately, you cannot dual wield shovels, and sharpness doesn't apply to shovels, but this might to be enough to kill Morgoth.

I reckon that is more than enough. I killed him with a plain 2d6 longsword once. Whilst you can't put sharpness on a shovel, does the song not still apply?

[debo]

I predict that would end in all of your throwables being burnt to a crisp.

Not if you find Nargil, Angrist, and Aeglos

Edit: Maybe I should petition for an artefact throwing axe!!

[clouded]

One challenge I would like to see is a pure throwing character go all the way. I guess you could still melee when necessary, but really emphasize using throwing as primary damage dealer.

I predict that would end in all of your throwables being burnt to a crisp.

[debo]

Celebrist and Melkor are pretty damned good too.

[debo]

I've taken polearm mastery with Sirion and Gaurin before and still been stomped.

One challenge I would like to see is a pure throwing character go all the way. I guess you could still melee when necessary, but really emphasize using throwing as primary damage dealer.

[HugoVirtuoso]

My polearm specialist path would be mastery -> zone of control -> flanking -> whirlwind. I did a character like this, but I switched from my glaive later for an axe, hard to find good polearms later it seems like.

Keep an eye out for Glaurin or Sirion. These are the best polearms you'll ever find Sil.

[taptap]

I'd like to see a good polearm specialist too.

I saw a 2d11 glaive today... But already specialized otherwise.

[clouded]

There is of course the one which almost goes without saying: Win without killing anything. Hardcore pacifist mode would be game over when anything spots you.

Along with the melee/evasion only, archery/stealth, stealth/song, melee/smithing should be viable.

Probably not for me personally, but: You're only allowed to wear equipment you've smithed yourself. (have to make an exception for the first weapon, which you need to drop at the first forge)

I've also thought about the jack of all trades thing, in the crawl community we have a lot of roundrobin accounts for doing challenge games and such, one was to keep all skills within a small margin (5) of each other. Much more annoying in ancient crawl though, since you had to victory dance everything and there are a lot of skills. In Sil I would go with the rule that: The difference of your highest and lowest skill must be be no more than 2, e.g. if your lowest skill is 1, your highest skill can be no more than 3.

It's not possible without modifying the game, but I'd like a mode where all stairs are replaced with shafts.

My polearm specialist path would be mastery -> zone of control -> flanking -> whirlwind. I did a character like this, but I switched from my glaive later for an axe, hard to find good polearms later it seems like.