Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[bron]

For now, if you are hacking the source, then making objects all fail their chance to become special is a good move (there are separate chances for fine and special).

Another advantage to not generating the items is that it would allow removing the restiction on the Lore-Master skill. At least, I assume that the reaon for restricting Lore-Mastery is that you get a bunch of exp. for identifying all the various magic items by sight, even if you don't use them. If all you have are potions and herbs, it seems a perfectly reasonable (non-magic) thing to be able to identify those. This makes only Flaming Arrows and Inner Light be suspect abilities.

[half]

Perhaps the no-magic challenge could be added to the core game rather than as a mod.

If enough people want it, we could do that.

For now, if you are hacking the source, then making objects all fail their chance to become special is a good move (there are separate chances for fine and special).

[Psi]

I was thinking about trying a modified version of this challenge: modify the source to remove the {special} attribute(s) from generated items. So e.g. a (-1,3d6) Greatsword of Hador's House would get generated, but then be changed into a normal (-1,3d6) Greatsword.

A minor correction is that Hador's House adds a side, so it would be 3d5 without {special}.

Perhaps the no-magic challenge could be added to the core game rather than as a mod.

[bron]

Scatha's no magic challenge

I started a character just for yucks, and surprised myself by not dying for quite awhile.
(http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14018).
I found it incredibly frustrating to find equipment that I couldn't use because it had a {special} tag. Like the first 3 lanterns I found. I was thinking about trying a modified version of this challenge: modify the source to remove the {special} attribute(s) from generated items. So e.g. a (-1,3d6) Greatsword of Hador's House would get generated, but then be changed into a normal (-1,3d6) Greatsword. I'd also want to stop generation of jewelry and staffs, and instead generate something else.

This would make the challenge easier, because more good equipment would get generated, and more useable equipment (e.g. the rings, amulets, and staves would get replaced by something else that you might be able to use, like maybe potions). What do people think? This would not quite be the same as the original challenge, but it would still be "no-magic".

[debo]

There should be a booby prize for whoever occupies the bottom-most position of the ladder

[HallucinationMushroom]

I thought this was in the same-enough-vein as my original thread idea, but I feel like it's starting to veer into needing it's own thread, and I'll make a new thread based on the number of replies I get to this...

If you think you own an exemplary example of a particular build, pm me the ladder link and tell me what identity it is, and I'll start to compile. That takes some of the work off me and keeps from hurting people's feeling through exclusion based on my own ignorance. Try to be somewhat concise about the primary concept or identity: stealth-stabber, smith, pacifist, etc... For myself, I self-identify with high protection warriors so I will probably include my best example, and perhaps my 3 challenges character, though I imagine somebody has done it better than me by now.

Only send characters that would make good learning examples. They don't have to be the most successful, or have extra notes (those help) just ones you wouldn't mind people cribbing. Getting extreme lucky early drops alter usefulness, for example.

And, I'll leave this idea at that. If I get enough pm's I'll take it to the next step and try to include characters who ought to belong but weren't pm'd and then possibly make the new thread if the final product actually looks useful.

Edit: Oh, and game version matters too. If an essential part of the build is rather broken based on game version (i.e. smithing costs), let's simply ignore it for the sake of current usefulness.

[Psi]

Okay cool, less work for me, I didn't get much positive feedback about my character piling idea.

I actually think it was a good idea, deserving of a sticky thread (dare I say it). However IMHO what it would need is a list of build types and then links to the strongest ladder characters who typify that build.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Okay cool, less work for me, I didn't get much positive feedback about my character piling idea. Sorry Hugo, we know enough about where to poke around that it wouldn't really be worth the effort!

That being said, I think the ladder actually does a pretty good job of sorting quality characters by score, since the formula is complex. If it doesn't already, perhaps a score boost to edain characters, but I really don't care about score.
I mainly just wanted to make a useful resource of character builds to quickly explore, not so much to celebrate individual players.

[Philip]

Actually, if you're only investing in archery, you still have versatility. I also wouldn't be against just giving yourself a bow and arrows.

[clouded]

I still dare you guys to do an only archery run.

Sounds kind of unfun before you find a bow, which could be a while. Lots of the challenges have little (or not so little) things like this that make them a bit painful.

I must mention what I've been toiling over for several months: Win a steathless Edain. Maybe I don't have the right strategy or I just suck, but I simply cannot manage it. If they had innate 1 con it would be so much more doable.

[Philip]

I still dare you guys to do an only archery run.

[HugoVirtuoso]

The Melee/Evasion only challenge is a specialisation of:

The Two-Skill Challenge:
Only put points into two skills...

I think the Three-Skill Challenge has only been won with the two Melee/Evasion/Will characters that have been mentioned.

The two-skill challenge is particularly fun. I have yet to win such an attempt. Psi and HM have tried as well. Let's see who is the 1st.

AFAIK, me and Psi are the only two players (unless there are others) who have won with Melee/Evasion/Will (and nothing else) as a Three-Skill Challenge (in any Sil version). Psi took it to another level by beating Morgoth down silly. There could be other three-skill challenge winners, aside from Melee/Evasion/Will, but I'm not sure.

The angband ladder has us listed as a bunch of no-class bums! Ha, but, seriously, I've been tinkering with the idea of piling notable characters (all winners, challenge attempts, etc...) into easily identifiable groups: Such as Morgy killers, winners, character-identity (warrior, smith, polearm specialist, etc...) and indicating if the player entered extra notes.....

So, to make a long story short, would anybody find this useful? And, if so, would this be best served by a new forum post that I constantly update and edit? The librarian in me occasionally takes over and I want to catalog...

Seems like a very nice idea, IMO. You (or someone else) could make the topic...or we can post the Sil Hall of Fame and/or Honorable Mentions here . I'd consider some honorable mentions of [A] those who didn't kill Morgoth but won the game with a distinctive playstyle...like Melee/Evasion/Willl as well as [B] those who have brought the crown to the surface, and other types out there. Examples: Myself for [A] and [B] during the pre-1.1 days. Psi qualifies for [B] and he has destroyed Morgoth with only Melee/Evasion/Will already

Hall of Fame for recordkeepers:
1) 1st player to ever beat Sil...in it's Golden v1.0 release: Satyr (if I'm not mistaken)
2) Sil's current #1 player: WildKhaine
3) Highest EXP points upon winning: Ignatius with 130,197
4) Won game AND killed Morgoth in few game turns: WildKhaine with only 9,341 game turns
4) Won game AND killed Morgoth with polearm-master + no artifacts: bron
5) Won game with only Melee/Evasion/Will: HugoTheGreat2011, Psi
7) Won game AND took crown to surface: HugoTheGreat2011 (done twice), Psi

Honorable mentions:
1) Attempted only Melee/Evasion: HugoTheGreat2011, HM, Psi (Let us know if anyone else has gotten far with this...)
2) Attempted only Stealth/Song: clouded
3) Tends to play two-handed weapons and Melee/Evasion/Will: HugoTheGreat2011

Looks like I'm bragging about myself (LOL at #3 in Honorable Mentions). But, knowing who has distinctive playstyles and won (or will win) in such a way is pretty cool and definitely noteworthy for the Sil record books.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Wow, that post is really long... Hmm, if anybody is still interested, perhaps just posting the most interesting or notable characters would suffice... perhaps by player suggestions? I know I have perused a few characters more than once... perhaps just the characters with useful notes or interesting builds?

[HallucinationMushroom]

The angband ladder has us listed as a bunch of no-class bums! Ha, but, seriously, I've been tinkering with the idea of piling notable characters (all winners, challenge attempts, etc...) into easily identifiable groups: Such as Morgy killers, winners, character-identity (warrior, smith, polearm specialist, etc...) and indicating if the player entered extra notes. I offer the following as a quick example of what I'm talking about... These are all the 1.1.1 winners that I found when sorting by Sil version number. I grabbed what I considered the core information, and tried to identify the major characteristic the best I could, but I'm obviously not spot-on.

So, to make a long story short, would anybody find this useful? And, if so, would this be best served by a new forum post that I constantly update and edit? The librarian in me occasionally takes over and I want to catalog, and while usually the ladder is enough, it doesn't indicate class. This wasn't a problem half a year ago when the number of winners to deaths was so low, but now there are pages of winners, and unless I can recall who wielded the double hammer bad ass leggings of awesome, I have to ask or start searching.

clouded (clouded) Naugrim Nogrod winner *notes

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13853

Warrior

Grr (HM) Noldor Feanor Morgy-killer

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13854

Warrior

Wigging (HM) Noldor Fearnor Morgy-killer

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13870

Heavy protection warrior

Beleg (Psi) Sindar Doriath Morgy-killer

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13899

Archer

Beleg (Thraalbeast) Sindar Doriath Winner *notes

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13900

Calarad (Ignatius) Noldor Fingolfin Winner

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13907

Archer

Leanne (jdh) Noldor Fingolfin Winner

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13925

Warrior

Timid (Psi) Noldor Feanor Morgy Killer *notes

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13949

Smith

Mech (jdh) Noldor Feanor Winner

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13950

Smith

Ornulmar (Ignatius) Noldor Finarfin Winner

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13962

Stealth

Jill (bron) Noldor Feanor Morgy Killer *a few notes

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13995

Polearm specialist - artefactless

[Philip]

Other possibilities? Perhaps archery could provide one. Stealth/Archery could be viable, so could Archery/Evasion and Archery/Perception.
EDIT: Would Archery 1 skill challenge be possible?