Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[HallucinationMushroom]

I would probably put less in perception in this version, as trap floors were more common in 1.0.2. I remember saying somewhere that inner light would be the ability I would most want, but now that I've got another year of playing... I'm leaning towards listen. As far as will, I dunno. Now that paralyze isn't insta-death, it's fear that's the big annoyance, and it's easier to just have a barrel of rfear stuff than to buy a ton of will, at least, from my experience. I would defer to your guys' expertise, I tend to play very one sided characters, and from a lack of knowledge on how a lot of the finer mechanics work.

[taptap]

I think I was gunning for around +12-15 for Will to have a decent check vs. fear/paralyze against those nasty spiders at the end and dragons, but I don't know the numbers enough to know if that is too much or too little... only that +12 doesn't seem to terribly expensive.

I learned that it takes a gigantic amount of perception, without keen senses, to reliably detect invisibles. I mainly took perception to dodge trap floors and detect doors for early ironman play.

With artifacts, Curufin would take care of my most stressful worry... darkness monsters and invisible monsters. That would be my number 1 artifact pick, I think.

It seems I am the one putting most into will and perception. Astonished with how little you get by (without the will it would have been game over against shadow spiders more than once for me).

[HallucinationMushroom]

I think I was gunning for around +12-15 for Will to have a decent check vs. fear/paralyze against those nasty spiders at the end and dragons, but I don't know the numbers enough to know if that is too much or too little... only that +12 doesn't seem to terribly expensive.

I learned that it takes a gigantic amount of perception, without keen senses, to reliably detect invisibles. I mainly took perception to dodge trap floors and detect doors for early ironman play.

With artifacts, Curufin would take care of my most stressful worry... darkness monsters and invisible monsters. That would be my number 1 artifact pick, I think.

[Psi]

When do you aim for on perception and wisdom? I'm not sure whether to push them any further or not.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Awesome! I hope you guys bring home the bacon, it'll be fun watching.

As far as abilities through items, I've wrestled with this too, but only theoretically, since I never found an ability item. That could be because most of my attempts were artifactless, haha. I think as far as I'm concerned abilities from items are ok. I used to try a lot of weird challenges like this to help learn the game, and this one really highlights just how powerful some of the abilities we take for granted are. The axe of singing the slaying song would be a great find, or the helmet of identify everything, or the vanish cloak, and I'm sure a whole host of others.

Feel free to tweak however you want to run it.

Also of note was in 1.0.2, paralyzation was a bigger fear. I think they hadn't nerfed the auto-trance-your-doomed at that point, so these characters are probably a little will heavy. Anyway, my best tries at this back to when I consider I was playing my best... I can't seem to win a no-challenges easy-Feanor anymore.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=12951 800' My best, I think
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=12921 650'
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=12940 900'

Or, the tl;dr, pulled from my best Fingolfin character... Hmm, oh well. My best to date, and I didn't feel too out of place where I died. This build is pretty good. 2/4/5/3, with a 7/5/3/1 start with ev/me/pe/wi. Put a point in each starting with evasion until pe and wi reach a strong bonus.

[Psi]

I challenge someone to win the challenge I tried several times, but couldn't quite crack the very end-game with. No abilities, just raw skill points. Most of my tries were with all the other in game challenges, but it's probably hard enough without those. If someone can win the no abilities challenge, then they should ramp it up with that next for sheer masochistic pleasure.

I'm having a go too: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15049&ok

Interestingly the same 3353 as taptap - which is what I also did for the melee/evasion only build.

[taptap]

I challenge someone to win the challenge I tried several times, but couldn't quite crack the very end-game with. No abilities, just raw skill points. Most of my tries were with all the other in game challenges, but it's probably hard enough without those. If someone can win the no abilities challenge, then they should ramp it up with that next for sheer masochistic pleasure.

Fascinating challenge. I tried with a 3353 Fingolfin warrior. I lost my first attempt due to my stubbornness to Gilim who was simply too strong for me. In the second run again at 500 ft. - at least in the early game this is seriously strong. Took out Easterling uniques and got a 3d5 bastard sword of hador's house, shield of hador and gloves of brethil. I hope abilities through items are allowed.

Currently sitting on 3 different unidentified amulets and 2 unidentified special greaves and really want to get the likely free action included in the greaves, but don't dare to carry potentially 2 danger items around.

[HallucinationMushroom]

I challenge someone to win the challenge I tried several times, but couldn't quite crack the very end-game with. No abilities, just raw skill points. Most of my tries were with all the other in game challenges, but it's probably hard enough without those. If someone can win the no abilities challenge, then they should ramp it up with that next for sheer masochistic pleasure.

[taptap]

Challenge: Commoner

Use only 4 variable points instead of 13 at start. This maps Noldor to the strength of hero Edain and Edain to ... thus implementing the nightmare mode before it is implemented.

[taptap]

Concept "Fencer"

Idea: killing Morgoth subtly with negative or 0 strength with no need to buff up strength for rapid attack. I am sure you can kill Morgoth when you add concentration, slaying and maybe song of sharpness for overkill - I don't know how to survive until then. You could start with some ridiculous stat distribution such as 0/5/3/5.

I started with 0/5/3/5, forged a 4.5 lb glaive for pre-subtlety damage, a 0.8 lb shortsword and a 0.8 lb shortbow (requires 9 smithing) in the first forge. The glaive is a really good starting weapon for a weak character. Damage increased with subtlety and increased even further with rapid attack. It works. Not sure about other disarming enemies and webs, the orcs didn't manage to do so because they were dead so fast.

[half]

(all insects, bats and early wolves)

Insects are pretty nasty for Song of Lorien users too. They have high Will scores, which is primarily because their Will is used in the skill roll when they try to poison you or whatever, so it needs to be high. I don't mind the fact that they end up being hard to sing to sleep. It seems silly if you imagine them to have iron wills, but better if you imagine them to have very non-human minds and thus harder to affect with songs etc.

[taptap]

Concept: Trickster (no stealth, no Lorien pacifist)

Idea: Make Morgoth and friends believe you are dangerous when you are not.

Use Elbereth, Majesty and lots of light. May require Song of Mastery and sprinting for creatures too dumb to be impressed.

I tried this with a Beor farm boy, trying to survive Angband with his cunning and fast legs only (0/3/1/4, sprinting and elbereth at start). Made it once to 300 ft. but the amount of unintelligent monsters (all insects, bats and early wolves) in the early levels is a real problem for him. Maybe a limited amount of archery is necessary to at least handle insects / bats.

It is the first build that will look forward to wargs (because they are intelligent).

[debo]

Cruel blow is very handy but everyone runs so fast when you have it My Maregil (light weapons char that killed Morgoth with subtle Delmereth) put wrath on her boots but still had enemies running.

I believe both two weaponing and rapid attack are generally overrated at least for the weapons people use them with - I often felt like I have to take them for the throne room but I forgot that the enemies get their armour on each of my attacks, while my attacks are significantly weaker. So basically you can only really use it to full effect when buffed up. I suspect for many builds momentum might be the better (and cheaper) way to profit from buffing up.

I would go subtlety with this build, the idea of a killing Morgoth in melee with a zero strength char is really tempting.

The worst part of this would actually be managing your inventory, imo. I was playing some 0 Str characters lately and dealing with the weight limit was more than I was willing to deal with after a while

[taptap]

Concept: Trickster (no stealth, no Lorien pacifist)

Idea: Make Morgoth and friends believe you are dangerous when you are not.

Use Elbereth, Majesty and lots of light. May require Song of Mastery and sprinting for creatures too dumb to be impressed.

[taptap]

Cruel blow is very handy but everyone runs so fast when you have it My Maregil (light weapons char that killed Morgoth with subtle Delmereth) put wrath on her boots but still had enemies running.

I believe both two weaponing and rapid attack are generally overrated at least for the weapons people use them with - I often felt like I have to take them for the throne room but I forgot that the enemies get their armour on each of my attacks, while my attacks are significantly weaker. So basically you can only really use it to full effect when buffed up. I suspect for many builds momentum might be the better (and cheaper) way to profit from buffing up.

I would go subtlety with this build, the idea of a killing Morgoth in melee with a zero strength char is really tempting.