Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[HallucinationMushroom]

A placeholder for random character ideas for Sil, or challenges or anything along those lines. I suppose we could talk about well known builds or diagram working ideas, but I'd rather talk about the untried or troublesome or quirky builds.

For example, one outstanding challenge I like to try but have yet to succeed at is no-abilities. I try gradually increasing evasion/melee/will/perception starting at 7/5/3/1. I've gotten to 850' a few times, but can't get endgame ready.

Scatha's no magic challenge: (I don't think this has been won either)
- Never use any {special} items, artefacts, jewellery, feanorian lamps, lesser jewels, or shadow cloaks.
- Don't use Staves or Trumpets
- No Songs
- Only Weaponsmith, Armoursmith and Artistry allowed in Smithing
- No Lore Master, Flaming Arrows, or Inner Light

Right now I just lost a jack-of-all-trades character, with all skills around 8-10 with a lot of purchased abilities. A lot of versatility, with perception bulking up melee and archery for most of the game. Psi has another jack character, I'm sure he'll show us how it's done!

[fph]

Something like killing Morgy with a shovel?

[HallucinationMushroom]

Yeah, like that! I've killed Morgy with a digger in this game, the mattock, but certainly not the shovel.

Considering the shovel in all serious though: If you had a really good smith, you could make a poison and fire branded shovel, at a ludicrous cost of around 58. So, 4d2. Let's say you have power (4d3), can achieve 9 strength through native strength and herb and potion (4d12), have momentum and 4 sources of extra damage, say from damage rings and maybe an artifact glove the kind that Psi makes that nets you +1 Str and +1 Damage (4d16), take rapid attack (4d13x2) and have song of slaying in the upper teens, kill everything at the throne room and get a really high melee bonus (+40 x2 4d12). Unfortunately, you cannot dual wield shovels, and sharpness doesn't apply to shovels, but this might to be enough to kill Morgoth.

This is actually the kind of stuff I was wanting to talk about here, weird-oddball stuff, so thanks! I still think about my ditchdigger character now and again. I should have been patient and hoarded more healing, but, it just didn't feel right... I was ready for the big fight. If I had gone against my gut, I probably would've died scumming for potions and that would've sucked.

[jdh]

The in-game challenges (ironman, disconnected stairs, no artefacts).

Win with Melee/Evasion/Will only, Melee/Evasion only, Melee only.

Polearm specialists -- I don't know if there's been a really good one.

Sceptres -- does anyone use them? You can get a fairly cheap fire brand that way.

Also: I was thinking about flaming arrows and wondering why they don't give light. It would be sort of cool if you fired one into a dark room and saw a mass of monsters to start running from.

Under Tricks: Trumpet of Blasting aimed downward. Using Knock Back on Grotesques. High light from Silmaril + other sources makes many deeper monsters (vampires, etc.) run away. Majesty helps the effect.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Speaking of scepters, what's up with quarterstaves? The automatic +2 is an easy parry pick, but the damage... yuck. If you could 1 hand it, sure, but you have to waste two hands on 2d4 at best? Horrible. I've never used scepters either.

I'd like to see a good polearm specialist too. I can see it in my minds eye, but I can't seem to make it work. Take this scenario: A 10-12 lb. halberd, focused attack, concentration and knockback. You could just wait, get the auto-attack, knockback, wait, rinse and repeat. On the other end of the spectrum, a half weight spear is 1.5 lbs and has good damage dice when 2h, 1d14 or 1d15 (if momentum). Put a brand on it, sing sharpness and roll the high crits.

[clouded]

There is of course the one which almost goes without saying: Win without killing anything. Hardcore pacifist mode would be game over when anything spots you.

Along with the melee/evasion only, archery/stealth, stealth/song, melee/smithing should be viable.

Probably not for me personally, but: You're only allowed to wear equipment you've smithed yourself. (have to make an exception for the first weapon, which you need to drop at the first forge)

I've also thought about the jack of all trades thing, in the crawl community we have a lot of roundrobin accounts for doing challenge games and such, one was to keep all skills within a small margin (5) of each other. Much more annoying in ancient crawl though, since you had to victory dance everything and there are a lot of skills. In Sil I would go with the rule that: The difference of your highest and lowest skill must be be no more than 2, e.g. if your lowest skill is 1, your highest skill can be no more than 3.

It's not possible without modifying the game, but I'd like a mode where all stairs are replaced with shafts.

My polearm specialist path would be mastery -> zone of control -> flanking -> whirlwind. I did a character like this, but I switched from my glaive later for an axe, hard to find good polearms later it seems like.

[taptap]

I'd like to see a good polearm specialist too.

I saw a 2d11 glaive today... But already specialized otherwise.

[HugoVirtuoso]

My polearm specialist path would be mastery -> zone of control -> flanking -> whirlwind. I did a character like this, but I switched from my glaive later for an axe, hard to find good polearms later it seems like.

Keep an eye out for Glaurin or Sirion. These are the best polearms you'll ever find Sil.

[debo]

I've taken polearm mastery with Sirion and Gaurin before and still been stomped.

One challenge I would like to see is a pure throwing character go all the way. I guess you could still melee when necessary, but really emphasize using throwing as primary damage dealer.

[debo]

Celebrist and Melkor are pretty damned good too.

[clouded]

One challenge I would like to see is a pure throwing character go all the way. I guess you could still melee when necessary, but really emphasize using throwing as primary damage dealer.

I predict that would end in all of your throwables being burnt to a crisp.

[debo]

I predict that would end in all of your throwables being burnt to a crisp.

Not if you find Nargil, Angrist, and Aeglos

Edit: Maybe I should petition for an artefact throwing axe!!

[Psi]

Considering the shovel in all serious though: If you had a really good smith, you could make a poison and fire branded shovel, at a ludicrous cost of around 58. So, 4d2. Let's say you have power (4d3), can achieve 9 strength through native strength and herb and potion (4d12), have momentum and 4 sources of extra damage, say from damage rings and maybe an artifact glove the kind that Psi makes that nets you +1 Str and +1 Damage (4d16), take rapid attack (4d13x2) and have song of slaying in the upper teens, kill everything at the throne room and get a really high melee bonus (+40 x2 4d12). Unfortunately, you cannot dual wield shovels, and sharpness doesn't apply to shovels, but this might to be enough to kill Morgoth.

I reckon that is more than enough. I killed him with a plain 2d6 longsword once. Whilst you can't put sharpness on a shovel, does the song not still apply?

[Psi]

Win with Melee/Evasion/Will only, Melee/Evasion only, Melee only.

I've managed the first one on that list. I suspect the others are a good deal harder...

[HugoVirtuoso]

I've managed the first one on that list. I suspect the others are a good deal harder...

I've won (by collecting 1 Sil) with the first one during the pre-v1.1 days as well, and Melee/Evasion/Will is the staple of most of my characters.