Next competition

[nppangband]

nice....been waiting for that for a while as well

So is there a list of the non-UI differences. I know I would need:

1) The frog knows monster, object, ego-item, and artifact lists from frog knows, I am sure there are some changes in race and class.txt as well.
2) some revised spells.
3) old speed system, right? +1 and +2 rings of speed?
4) turn off object stacking
5) only about 4 greater vaults, correct, and a veyr limited number of pits/nests.
6) sorry, not bringing back haggling.
7) I would not want to undo certain improvements like the monster health bar, and it would be a major, painful project to bring back the old ai, or even 3gai. So any frog knows version I make would have monster mana, intelligent spellcasting, etc.

What else?

I could probably do this sometime. My RL state means nobody should hold their breath, though.

[Derakon]

So is there a list of the non-UI differences. I know I would need:

1) The frog knows monster, object, ego-item, and artifact lists from frog knows, I am sure there are some changes in race and class.txt as well.

Couldn't advise you on these since it's been so long. About all I remember is that Ringil also had some stat boosts (possibly +1 to all stats).

2) some revised spells.

The big ones here are a) detection only lasts until you dismiss the "you detect monsters!" message (could be simulated by simply not allowing the 'l'ook command to leave LOS), and b) return of Globe of Invulnerability.

3) old speed system, right? +1 and +2 rings of speed?

Yep. And no diminishing returns on speed either; +5 speed is 6x base speed. The game also had special names for each speed level ("Fast", "Very Fast", "Extremely Fast", "Ludicrous Speed", "Light Speed", IIRC, and then Light Speed just repeated). With wizard mode you could adjust your "natural" speed arbitrarily; I remember boosting a character's speed to something like Light Speed +47, taking a step, and instantly dying of starvation.

5) only about 4 greater vaults, correct, and a veyr limited number of pits/nests.

Yep. IIRC the vaults were:
Lesser vaults:
Round
Octagon (2 types)
Diagonal (2 types)

Greater vaults:
GCV ("huge")
Large
Butterfly
Chambers

The vaults were also decently common, IIRC; I seem to recall that finding at least one and often two GCVs/character was the norm. Then again, I probably played very slowly back then.

7) I would not want to undo certain improvements like the monster health bar, and it would be a major, painful project to bring back the old ai, or even 3gai. So any frog knows version I make would have monster mana, intelligent spellcasting, etc.

I think this is acceptable. frog-knows told you roughly how healthy monsters were when you looked at them (e.g. "unhurt", "slightly wounded", ..., "almost dead"), and I think the healthbar is a reasonable replacement for that. Monster mana and smart spellcasting is of course going to be a big change compared to the old days, but if it's too hard to be worth implementing, then that's that.

What else?

*Identify* doesn't stick -- you see the item properties only as long as you keep the prompt open. There's no 'I'nspect command. Potions of Self Knowledge instead of the detailed character screen (and again, the info the potion gives only lasts until you dismiss the prompt). Electric brands are x5. Stores can stock just about any quality of item (IIRC; certainly the Black Market could stock any non-artifact item). Similar bow-slot restrictions as in Moria. Levels sometimes start out with a Destruction effect already applied to part of them (I think this was in frog-knows; certainly it was in later versions). No preserve mode. Light radii are all 1 (again IIRC). Item distributions are much flatter than in current versions (you can find incredibly powerful stuff early on; powerful late-game stuff like the upper-tier DSMs are relatively common). Potions of Death and Detonations.

There's plenty more, I'm sure, but this is all that comes to mind at the moment.

[Malak Darkhunter]

[QUOTE=nppangband;83960]So is there a list of the non-UI differences. I know I would need:

1) The frog knows monster, object, ego-item, and artifact lists from frog knows, I am sure there are some changes in race and class.txt as well.
2) some revised spells.
3) old speed system, right? +1 and +2 rings of speed?
4) turn off object stacking
5) only about 4 greater vaults, correct, and a veyr limited number of pits/nests.
6) sorry, not bringing back haggling.
7) I would not want to undo certain improvements like the monster health bar, and it would be a major, painful project to bring back the old ai, or even 3gai. So any frog knows version I make would have monster mana, intelligent spellcasting, etc.

What else? [Quote]


In addition to what Derakon has said also

max stats are 18/100
hobbits don't have hold life
some artifacts had different names, differnt damage dice, and different attributes than today
treasures pit's vaults that can take up the whole screen..in rare cases dragon pits at 1000ft
cursed weapons..weapons of morgul
player ghosts
rings of protection and damage could max out at +20
( alot of this would be in artifact.txt, object list.text, and vault.text)
not as many uniques.

I'm going to be honest everything is different, item depth generation tables are different, unique special abilities are different, artifacts are differnent and in some case even have a differnt name, even player races have been tweaked over time..not sure how you could make this happen..it's like taking the very first version without all the tweaks over the years and applying it modern npp, you can read some of the changes from version to version on rephial.com under downloads(older) and find frog knows and later versions.

[PowerWyrm]

Yeah this sounds fun

[Nick]

Just downloaded it from rephial.org and...yes, it does!

I've tried and failed - how did you get it running?

[Malak Darkhunter]

I've tried and failed - how did you get it running?

I can get it to run under dosbox, if he has xp some ibm/dos applications will run in that enviroment, sometimes not...I used to be able to play sangband 1.0.0 final Ibm/Dos version under windows xp with no problem, but that is hardly a modern platform...I am curious as to what operating system he is using and whether he compiled the source or not.

[MattB]

I've tried and failed - how did you get it running?

Er, I didn't do anything clever!
Running windows7 I went to rephial, downloaded FK PC version 1.1, extracted it and clicked on angband.exe and away we go.

Here's my first (and very short-lived) character...

EDIT: I guess it helps to equip your equipment!

 Name        : gonk                    Age          :     18   STR :     18 
 Race        : Human                   Height       :     76   INT :      8 
 Sex         : Male                    Weight       :    184   WIS :     11 
 Class       : Warrior                 Social Class :     33   DEX :     15 
 Title       : Rookie                                          CON :     18 
                                                               CHR :     15 

 + To Hit    :      1        Level      :      1    Max Hit Points :     21
 + To Damage :      3        Experience :      2    Cur Hit Points :     -2
 + To AC     :      1        Gold       :     35    Max Mana       :      0
   Total AC  :      1                               Cur Mana       :      0

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

 Fighting    : Very Good    Stealth     : Poor         Perception  : Bad
 Bows/Throw  : Good         Disarming   : Bad          Searching   : Poor
 Saving Throw: Fair         Magic Device: Fair         Infra-Vision: 0 feet

Character Background
 You are one of several children of a Yeoman.  You are a
 credit to the family.  You have brown eyes, straight brown
 hair, and a dark complexion.
 

  [Character's Equipment List]

  Character has no equipment in use.


  [General Inventory List]

a) 5 Rations of Food.
b) a Potion of Berserk Strength.
c) Chain Mail (-2) [14,+0].
d) a Broadsword (2d5) (+0,+0).
e) 5 Wooden Torches with 4000 turns of light.

[Nick]

Hmm - dunno what I did wrong, then. We might try again next time.

[PowerWyrm]

Damn, this is unplayable for me
You need a qwerty keyboard...

[Nick]

OK, my issue with frog-knows (actually PCAngband 1.1) was that I was trying to use 64-bit windows - works fine on 32-bit.

Do we still want a comp, and what race/class? We could do a HE mage to contrast with the current comp, or something completely different. Opinions?

[HugoVirtuoso]

Do we still want a comp, and what race/class? We could do a HE mage to contrast with the current comp, or something completely different. Opinions?

If possible, implement this comp!! ...with the same high-elven mage combination to contrast the evolutionary changes to Angband to date.

[MattB]

...with the same high-elven mage combination to contrast the evolutionary changes to Angband to date.

But I want to get out of statgain this time!
(But then again, I am VERY bad at mages - too many keys).

Incidentally, has anyone else that's had a go at FK/PC1.1 had any difficulty imputting counts? My [#] key doesn't let me imput digits. This makes mining for treasure very tedious...
[shift] [t] [up]
[shift] [t] [up]
[shift] [t] [up]
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"Oh sod, there's probably not much gold there anyway."

[PowerWyrm]

Just found out that you can only fire in 8 directions in frog-knows (no targeting). This will make a mage a hell hard to play...

[PowerWyrm]

Something more annoying... don't press ctrl-S: it quits the game WITHOUT saving. Learned it the hard way...

Oh, and if you download from rephial, PC Angband 1.1 is in fact PC Angband 1.2, which will give you some extra features: look command, rod of trap location, auto-roller (+ bug fixes).

[PowerWyrm]

Also oook doesn't recognize character dumps from this version because they are too terse.