Next competition

[fizzix]

Hmm I would go for not only teleport other, but also both banishment and mass banishment removed. Would make and interesting challenge.

That could work also. Especially if summoning gets nerfed. That being said, as long as you're not playing mage, banishment is a very limited resource anyway.

edit: I should add. Destruction is far more of an issue than banishment.

[Raajaton]

I think #3 would be a fun option. I did several playthroughs of your modified version a while back in between 3.4.1 and the 3.5 nightlies starting to come around. I have to say that playing a mage with mass identify was super convenient. Also losing the fear of nexus swapping relieved quite a bit of tension. Although perhaps that made the game a bit too easy in that version, I think in a game where TO is not accessible, that could lead to a lot of fun challenges.

[Nick]

Put me down as a vote for fizzixband.

[krazyhades]

I'd play some FizzBand.

[PowerWyrm]

That could work also. Especially if summoning gets nerfed. That being said, as long as you're not playing mage, banishment is a very limited resource anyway.

edit: I should add. Destruction is far more of an issue than banishment.

The comp char would be a mage no? But yeah, if you keep destruction, the teleport other/banish exploit would be replaced by lure/destroy anyway. Sure a mage with no teleport other, banishment and destruction would be a nice challenge. Ever tried TomeNET? These spells (minus teleport other) have been nerfed to a point (banishment costs 1dmlvl per monster and leaves you with a few hps if you luckily survive, destruction makes you *stunned* and *blind* for like 1000 turns -- which is not curable) that nobody use them anymore.

[fizzix]

The comp char would be a mage no? But yeah, if you keep destruction, the teleport other/banish exploit would be replaced by lure/destroy anyway. Sure a mage with no teleport other, banishment and destruction would be a nice challenge. Ever tried TomeNET? These spells (minus teleport other) have been nerfed to a point (banishment costs 1dmlvl per monster and leaves you with a few hps if you luckily survive, destruction makes you *stunned* and *blind* for like 1000 turns -- which is not curable) that nobody use them anymore.

I was thinking rogue might work the best. My plan right now is to get my nerfs to monster summoning working properly, then we can figure out whether to nerf these other spells and how.

[PowerWyrm]

The comp char would be a mage no? But yeah, if you keep destruction, the teleport other/banish exploit would be replaced by lure/destroy anyway. Sure a mage with no teleport other, banishment and destruction would be a nice challenge. Ever tried TomeNET? These spells (minus teleport other) have been nerfed to a point (banishment costs 1dmlvl per monster and leaves you with a few hps if you luckily survive, destruction makes you *stunned* and *blind* for like 1000 turns -- which is not curable) that nobody use them anymore.

Heh I just checked... monsters in TomeNET can resist teleportation, so TO has been completely nerfed too...

[Estie]

Lure away + destruct is gameplay. Unlike wand of TO, more things than just fail% on the casting can (and will) go wrong. Thats a tactic that should be encouraged, not prohibited. In current vanilla I usually dont bother with it because its too risky; I might use it if I have no TO available.

It is also about the only use for Destruct other than panic button.

[Derakon]

Lure away + destruct is gameplay. Unlike wand of TO, more things than just fail% on the casting can (and will) go wrong. Thats a tactic that should be encouraged, not prohibited. In current vanilla I usually dont bother with it because its too risky; I might use it if I have no TO available.

It is also about the only use for Destruct other than panic button.

Destruct can also be used to pre-emptively remove Graveyards from the level before they break loose, or to clip out the portion of a vault that has a monster you really don't want to deal with. And of course there's the "teleport Morgoth away, then destruct his summons" tactic. Destruction is a great panic button, but it has plenty of tactical uses as well.

[Estie]

Destruct can also be used to pre-emptively remove Graveyards from the level before they break loose, or to clip out the portion of a vault that has a monster you really don't want to deal with. And of course there's the "teleport Morgoth away, then destruct his summons" tactic. Destruction is a great panic button, but it has plenty of tactical uses as well.

Graveyards: true, but I usually just teleport away rather than waste a scroll. If I dont want to or cant while next to a GY, reading destruct qualifies as panic button.

Portion of the vault: that falls undr lure + destruct ? at least it serves the same purpose, if luring is not an option.

And ofcourse the endfight: I had considered mentioning it in the op but foolishly decided against it, instead favouring the vague term "about. So I stand corrected

[fizzix]

We should probably move this to a new thread. I'm going to preemptively make a competition 154 thread, assuming Debo will fill in 153 with PosCheng.

[MattB]

Before anyone suggests a Frazband Dwarf Rogue with (birth_ai_learn) and (birth_small_range), could I please put my hand up for a good old-fashioned speed romp through Vanilla 3.5 with a Half-Troll warrior?

I should add that while I agree that it's really important for the competition to explore unusual race/class combos, other variants and different options, I think it also good to have some that are more inclusive and that nearly everyone can get their teeth stuck into. Judging by the number of entrants I can't be alone in only having a really good go at the Vanilla and FAangband ones (and I'm not saying there aren't enough of these either).

Just my twopence worth...

[PowerWyrm]

I'd suggest a PWMAngband 1.1.10 summoner, just to see how far players would go before shooting themselves in the head.

For those who are not used to PWMAngband, summoner is the class counterpart to the Yeek race from many variants. Low stats and attributes (worse than mage), one blow per round limit. You don't kill monsters, you summon stuff and they do the killing for you. You will feel like you play a quylthulg, but at least you're able to move normally.

To stay sane, a high-elf summoner (decent hit die, great shooting bonus). For complete madness, a yeek summoner (-10 to all stats).

[debo]

I'd love to do a PWM comp but I have no ability to host a windows-based server -- and it seems like last time people had a bit of an issue running both client+server on their own.

PowerWyrm maybe you and I can bang some ideas around and figure something out for a competition-after-next?

I'd be happy to do a "smash all the things" 3.5 HT warrior -- I was also thinking of another hellband comp. I want to do an animeband and/or strangeband comp one day too, but not sure (a) if the ladder is rigged for those and (b) if anyone can even run them.

Edit: HT Warrior is fun but probably not the easiest for a newbie to win with. Definitely super easy to get started though, so I guess this is good enough?

[debo]

I think it also good to have some that are more inclusive and that nearly everyone can get their teeth stuck into.

+1 to this