Unofficial Oangband release

[wdvaughn]

Any Updates/Bugfixes Coming Out?

Nick, just wondering if a bugfix update is going to come out some day. I know your initial post implied that this was a one shot deal, but I'm compelled to at least ask.

For me the two biggies are:
* Incorrect display of resistance percentages in the Character screen.
* Can't find a set of options that will not autopickup items but will automatically list each item as I walk over it. And even though autopickup is turned off I should still pick up $ automatically and that's not happening.

Despite these glitches I've been playing O (OS X version) fairly constantly the past two months. I've also rediscovered the joy of playing with preserve off - I forgot how fun that was.

William

[Nick]

Nick, just wondering if a bugfix update is going to come out some day. I know your initial post implied that this was a one shot deal, but I'm compelled to at least ask.

I have actually put up a few - the most recent about two weeks ago.

* Incorrect display of resistance percentages in the Character screen.

This is fixed.

* Can't find a set of options that will not autopickup items but will automatically list each item as I walk over it. And even though autopickup is turned off I should still pick up $ automatically and that's not happening.

This probably isn't - I can't remember if I'e made any changes to pickup yet, but I know it's not quite right. The current competition is O, so I'm getting lots of bug reports and there should be another fix before too long.

[buzzkill]

This probably isn't - I can't remember if I'e made any changes to pickup yet, but I know it's not quite right. The current competition is O, so I'm getting lots of bug reports and there should be another fix before too long.

Here's more of the same... Picked up some lead shots, pseudo-ID'd them as excellent, put them in my quiver and fired a few. During battle, I ID'd the ones still in my quiver as, of freezing (+4,+4). After the battle, when I picked up the un-ID'd ones I had fired (exactly identical), they wouldn't stack with the ID'd ones. I'm not exactly sure when the pseudo-ID occurred, it may have been after I fired them, if that matters.

[Nick]

Here's more of the same... Picked up some lead shots, pseudo-ID'd them as excellent, put them in my quiver and fired a few. During battle, I ID'd the ones still in my quiver as, of freezing (+4,+4). After the battle, when I picked up the un-ID'd ones I had fired (exactly identical), they wouldn't stack with the ID'd ones. I'm not exactly sure when the pseudo-ID occurred, it may have been after I fired them, if that matters.

Yeah, this is standard O behaviour, and I believe intentional. The main weirdness is with weapons stacking until you have used them; I'll do some sort of fix, but I'm not sure exactly what.

[Bandobras]

Yeah, this is standard O behaviour, and I believe intentional. The main weirdness is with weapons stacking until you have used them; I'll do some sort of fix, but I'm not sure exactly what.

Please stack all identical (regardless of (pseudo-)ID), ever. That's where the world is going...

[PowerDiver]

Yeah, this is standard O behaviour, and I believe intentional. The main weirdness is with weapons stacking until you have used them; I'll do some sort of fix, but I'm not sure exactly what.

Let me proselytize my belief that id should never affect gameplay. In this case, that implies that if things would stack if identified, IMO they should stack if not identified.

You could be gross and apply that principle only to things that go in a quiver.

[Nick]

Let me proselytize my belief that id should never affect gameplay. In this case, that implies that if things would stack if identified, IMO they should stack if not identified.

You're preaching to the converted here - but I'm trying to avoid gameplay changes.

You could be gross and apply that principle only to things that go in a quiver.

That might be the best option here.

[PowerDiver]

You could be gross and apply that principle only to things that go in a quiver.

I think that it should be a fairly easy change to object_similar. Changing each invocation of object_known_p with (object_known_p || goes_into_quiver) should work. Oh, should also allow merging with different pseudo [at the very end] to address another complaint upthread.

I don't understand your comment about avoiding gameplay changes. This is old and has to be presumed to be intentional behavior, forcing the player to ?id a stack before using it, and so any change you make is a conscious gameplay change. If you are going to take on the responsibility for a change, you might as well do it right.

[Nick]

I think that it should be a fairly easy change to object_similar. Changing each invocation of object_known_p with (object_known_p || goes_into_quiver) should work. Oh, should also allow merging with different pseudo [at the very end] to address another complaint upthread.

Yes, I'll do that.

I don't understand your comment about avoiding gameplay changes. This is old and has to be presumed to be intentional behavior, forcing the player to ?id a stack before using it, and so any change you make is a conscious gameplay change. If you are going to take on the responsibility for a change, you might as well do it right.

I had the impression (and I'm not sure where I got it from) that the throwing weapons not stacking behaviour was unintentional; there's a whole lot of weirdness that happens to do with throwing something and then pseudoing the ones you haven't thrown, amnesia, etc. etc.

On the whole, I think I'll just make quiver stuff stack regardless. In FA I have made everything stack the way you suggest (and nerfed amnesia), but I won't go that far with O.

As for the question of what's a bugfix and what's a gameplay change, that depends on the mind of the maintainer at the instant of release, I guess, and that way lies madness. I'll do something, and you can tell me if I've got it wrong again

[PowerDiver]

I had the impression (and I'm not sure where I got it from) that the throwing weapons not stacking behaviour was unintentional

The only "bug" is that the ammo was stacked in the first place. If you do not identify it, it does not stack, and that isn't about pseudo.

The fact that it is generated stacked was clearly intentional, and that's why I put bug in quotes. It is inconsistent behavior set up to allow the player to use a single identify so long as he is not so obstinate as to, heaven forbid, use the item before identifying it.

[Nick]

The only "bug" is that the ammo was stacked in the first place. If you do not identify it, it does not stack, and that isn't about pseudo.

Unless you take the view that once you know two things are the same, you shouldn't forget just by throwing one of them a few feet and then picking it up again.

I must say, it is kind of amusing that two people who agree that the ID system is flawed are arguing over the precise nature of the flaws.

[PowerDiver]

I must say, it is kind of amusing that two people who agree that the ID system is flawed are arguing over the precise nature of the flaws.

Who would be better informed about particulars than the malcontents? I should admit, I don't know O, but I believe it to be the same as S and am talking about S specifics that drove me crazy.

In any case, I am pleased to be a source of amusement.

[buzzkill]

Unless you take the view that once you know two things are the same, you shouldn't forget just by throwing one of them a few feet and then picking it up again.

It's no less absurd than assuming that since you knew which lead shots were (+0+0), which were {good}, which were (+3,+3), and which were of ???, ???, and ??? when you put them into your quiver, that you would easily be able to select the proper ammo during the heat of battle. Of course, it could just be that every of piece of ammo has it's type clearly inscribed upon it (visible only to you) as part of the magical ID process.

[Donald Jonker]

It's no less absurd than assuming that since you knew which lead shots were (+0+0), which were {good}, which were (+3,+3), and which were of ???, ???, and ??? when you put them into your quiver, that you would easily be able to select the proper ammo during the heat of battle. Of course, it could just be that every of piece of ammo has it's type clearly inscribed upon it (visible only to you) as part of the magical ID process.

*wince*... maybe if your @ is Forrest Gump... Really, if the @ knows enough to make the division in the first place, then he should know enough to keep that division in mind during the infinitely confusing process of shifting things from inventory to quiver or picking them up off the ground. Sorry if this seems overly harsh, but your argument just doesn't seem to be worth making.

[Narvius]

And, except that, it's turn-based. The @ has enough time for distinguishing his identically-looking items ^.^