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  • Nick
    Vanilla maintainer
    • Apr 2007
    • 9647

    #61
    Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
    I wish you had listed what the "several changes discussed elsewhere" were. I had to discover the hard way that quaffing CSW or CCW was killing my ironman character with hunger. Personally, I find this latest change to the hunger mechanic completed f*ckd.
    Well, that's one vote. We'll see how it's panning out, it can easily be reverted.
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

    Comment

    • wobbly
      Prophet
      • May 2012
      • 2633

      #62
      Ha ha, no matter what you do with food you pea off someone, glad you changed it? Does pretty much nothing outside aesthetics had its advantages.
      Anyway, I'm finding it fairly ok so far & an improvement on the last system.

      Ingwe - Curious how you find it on your next run, now that you actually know what it does, rather then dying randomly to not realizing there was a mechanics change.

      Comment

      • Sphara
        Knight
        • Oct 2016
        • 504

        #63
        I can imagine this new food system does put on a little cramp on an ironman game. Even ONE inventory slot is a true luxury doing ironman, and I can understand reserving even one for food, can really get on the nerves. Whether you know that potions drain satiation ahead or not.

        Otherwise, the new system is thousandmillionf*****g times better than a system that bloats you 5% for every healing or *healing*.

        Comment

        • fph
          Veteran
          • Apr 2009
          • 1030

          #64
          Maybe this can be fixed by simply increasing the food drop rate for Ironman even more?
          --
          Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.

          Comment

          • archolewa
            Swordsman
            • Feb 2019
            • 400

            #65
            Originally posted by fph
            Maybe this can be fixed by simply increasing the food drop rate for Ironman even more?
            Or giving people a quiver-like food bag for food?

            Comment

            • wxman
              Rookie
              • Jun 2020
              • 7

              #66
              Originally posted by archolewa
              Or giving people a quiver-like food bag for food?
              I'm picturing a metal lunchbox with licensed Tarrasque pictures...

              Comment

              • Ingwe Ingweron
                Veteran
                • Jan 2009
                • 2129

                #67
                Originally posted by wobbly
                Ingwe - Curious how you find it on your next run, now that you actually know what it does, rather then dying randomly to not realizing there was a mechanics change.
                No, still absolutely hate it. Under the previous system, one could still dive and fight, just being careful to starve a little before going into battle with big monsters. Now, however, one is caught at both ends. You can't fully top-up food because of slowing and can't fight big monsters very long without becoming *Weak* or even *Fainting*. Sure you can pick off one or maybe two big monsters in melee (which is going to require healing), but then have to return home to get food (not an option for ironman). Yeah, you can also use up another very precious inventory slot to carry food, but still have to use up turns to scarf food, which in melee is pretty screwed. The penalties for healing are much too great under this new system and food sources aren't plentiful enough at the penultimate and ultimate levels. Try clearing a vault! Ironman characters are completely screwed and ordinary characters have to recall to town a whole lot more. You can't even rest to recover the hitpoints, since your going to starve! Not fun. My opinion stands, this new system is f*ckd.
                “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                Comment

                • archolewa
                  Swordsman
                  • Feb 2019
                  • 400

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                  No, still absolutely hate it. Under the previous system, one could still dive and fight, just being careful to starve a little before going into battle with big monsters. Now, however, one is caught at both ends. You can't fully top-up food because of slowing and can't fight big monsters very long without becoming *Weak* or even *Fainting*. Sure you can pick off one or maybe two big monsters in melee (which is going to require healing), but then have to return home to get food (not an option for ironman). Yeah, you can also use up another very precious inventory slot to carry food, but still have to use up turns to scarf food, which in melee is pretty screwed. The penalties for healing are much too great under this new system and food sources aren't plentiful enough at the penultimate and ultimate levels. Try clearing a vault! Ironman characters are completely screwed and ordinary characters have to recall to town a whole lot more. You can't even rest to recover the hitpoints, since your going to starve! Not fun. My opinion stands, this new system is f*ckd.
                  When I was making the suggestion, I was imagining that bloated no longer slows you...

                  Comment

                  • Ingwe Ingweron
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2129

                    #69
                    Inscribing an object does not take up any game turns, rightly so, as it is for convenience of the player, not the @. However, why does inscribing an object require a shape-changed @ to change back to humanoid shape? To my mind, that is a bug, or is there a rationale I'm missing?
                    “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                    ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                    Comment

                    • Nick
                      Vanilla maintainer
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 9647

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                      Inscribing an object does not take up any game turns, rightly so, as it is for convenience of the player, not the @. However, why does inscribing an object require a shape-changed @ to change back to humanoid shape? To my mind, that is a bug, or is there a rationale I'm missing?
                      Looks like a bug to me.
                      One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                      In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                      Comment

                      • whartung
                        Adept
                        • May 2020
                        • 101

                        #71
                        Originally posted by archolewa
                        When I was making the suggestion, I was imagining that bloated no longer slows you...
                        Well, before, >80% was bloated. I don't know how much food the current healing system is consuming. So, the question is now how much time is 20 extra food points (i.e. unslowed "full") going to buy a character in combat?

                        Comment

                        • Ingwe Ingweron
                          Veteran
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 2129

                          #72
                          Originally posted by whartung
                          Well, before, >80% was bloated. I don't know how much food the current healing system is consuming. So, the question is now how much time is 20 extra food points (i.e. unslowed "full") going to buy a character in combat?
                          Not enough, to my mind. Try clearing a vault without healing! It's really messed up. You go a ways in the vault, fighting monsters and healing as needed, but there's not any food sources. You have to abandon the vault and recall home to get food, or as ironman you just starve to death. It just encourages TO of everything remotely dangerous and eschewing melee almost completely. That might be fine for mage type characters, but melee characters are inordinately screwed over by the changes.
                          “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                          ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                          Comment

                          • archolewa
                            Swordsman
                            • Feb 2019
                            • 400

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                            It just encourages TO of everything remotely dangerous and eschewing melee almost completely. That might be fine for mage type characters, but melee characters are inordinately screwed over by the changes.
                            This is mostly what I do anyway with vaults, even with melee characters. The way I see it, unless you're a sneaky type, you're better off diving 20 floors and finding the same damn thing on the floor, more lightly guarded. Especially since if I try to fight the monsters in the vaults, I end up burning way more consumables than is usually worth it.

                            Before the endgame, I view vaults as a source of treasure for rogues and mages. Warriors get their treasure by killing lots of at-depth-or-higher monsters.

                            Comment

                            • wobbly
                              Prophet
                              • May 2012
                              • 2633

                              #74
                              Found a lantern(??). When I examine it "provides protection from blindness", yet I don't know the rune & pblind is displaying a ? in the light column.

                              Comment

                              • PowerWyrm
                                Prophet
                                • Apr 2008
                                • 2987

                                #75
                                Last Win version (angband-win-82-4.2.1-g4da93f743) doesn't run, game closes immediately.
                                PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

                                Comment

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