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  • Derakon
    replied
    Originally posted by Carnivean
    This is something that should be fixed! Bring back the Power Dragon (even though I'm fairly certain they never existed).
    I think ZAngband was the first variant to introduce Great Wyrms of Power, able to breathe every element, of course resistant to every element too, and with massive health pools and some unpleasant melee damage. I think the ZAngband version also has all the elemental auras, which damage you slightly each time you hit them in melee.

    Having Great Wyrms of Balance without the Law/Chaos versions is definitely strange, especially since Law Drakes and Chaos Drakes are still in the game per your listed changes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carnivean
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick
    Trolls: I went with snow troll because of the quote; I'd be happy to revert them to ice trolls if people preferred, though.
    I vote to keep the new name.

    we already have PDSM with no power dragons
    This is something that should be fixed! Bring back the Power Dragon (even though I'm fairly certain they never existed).

    In general I agree with the gist of Derakon's analysis and Powerwyrm's points. It makes sense that the dragons/drakes/wyrms should be available in different threat levels and that the dragon armours should match the family of D's that they come from. Having items that have no clear origin is confusing. Having each element belong to a type of D/ a type of D for each element makes intuitive sense too.

    Balance/Chaos/Law dragons don't make a ton of sense unless they fit the above pattern. I'm fairly certain that they're from a D&D background too, relating to the alignments from that game.

    I also like the idea of Greater Wyrms and think that dragons should only be able to summon from the level below their own.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Trolls: I went with snow troll because of the quote; I'd be happy to revert them to ice trolls if people preferred, though.

    Dragons - Sky Dragons I already liked from O/FA. Then when I was looking at the really deep non-unique dragons, we had one that breathed sound and shards, one that breathed chaos and disenchantment, one that breathed sound and shards and chaos and disenchantment, and one that breathed the basics and poison - and it just seemed we could do with better variety. I didn't think of the implications for dragon scale mail, I must admit - but we already have PDSM with no power dragons, so that's not necessarily a disaster.

    I must say, I find the whole law/chaos/balance thing a bit forced. I can understand the concept, and chaos and disenchantment work fine for the chaotic side, but I don't really see anything particularly lawful about sound and shards.

    I wouldn't mind a bit of tidying up there, but I am really happy with the new deep dragons, especially the wyrms of annihilation

    Hummerhorns only moved two levels deeper - I don't think that really matters either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • wobbly
    replied
    I prefer snow trolls to ice trolls which always confuse me a little: Is it a troll made of ice? or a troll that lives on a glacier?

    Furys I'm going to continually misread as Furries but don't let that influence your decisions.

    Re dragons: Baby Wyrms of Power was a missed opportunity for cute-ness IMHO.

    Originally posted by Grotug
    "Although Grendel looks something like a man — having two arms (or claws), two legs, and one head — he is much larger and can defeat dozens of men at a time. He is protected from man's weapons by a magic charm. He devours some of the dead on the spot and carries others back to his lair, the cave he shares with his mother beneath a pool of water in a dark swamp. (Sounds like a wicked video game villain, doesn't he?)" That he does! *wink *wink. Although maybe Grendel was more of an Ogre than a Troll. While I'm at it I wonder if we shouldn't get Grendel as a unique in Angband?
    Grendel is in the heng-likes as an Ogre.

    Leave a comment:


  • Derakon
    replied
    Regarding ice: how about Frost Trolls? We have Frost Giants already, and I agree that "Snow Troll" sounds a little unintimidating.

    I dig the bog/fen suggestion for water trolls.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grotug
    replied
    Don't quite understand why Law and Chaos dragons are being replaced, but very glad great wyrms of balance remain untouched. But isn't a wyrm of balance a combination of Law and Chaos? By that virtue alone, Law and Chaos dragons should remain untouched. If Sky and Annihilation are simply name changes for Law and Chaos; I think it'd be better to leave the names as they are now and just add Annihilation and Sky dragons for the simple reason that Finding Dragon Scale Mail of Annihilation kinda implies armor on similar caliber as PDSM, not less power than Balance dragon scale mail.

    Great Sky Wyrm sounds nice as an addition to dragonkind. So does Great Wyrm of Annihilation. Would it hurt somehow to add these dragons without replacing others? Great Wyrm of Annihilation could have native depth of 92, deeper even than GWofBalance and even more terrible. The name 'Great Wyrm of Annihilation' kinda sounds like it should be the most terrible non unique dragon (and I've always wondered why we don't actually have a corresponding dragon to PDSM; GWofAnnhilation could be it: it breathes and resists everything but nether and nexus, has 4800hp and moves very quickly).

    I do like "terrified yeek", I think it feels right and is more descriptive than brown yeek.

    I don't mind neekerbreekers being moved deeper because they can be problematic at any depth, but I don't see the need to touch hummerhorns. Putting them any deeper than they have been and it's too likely @ will have _Teleportation by the time @ encounters them, rendering them less interesting. The depth they were at actually makes them more interesting than any other depth they could be found at. The deeper @ encounters them, the less interesting they are, because they become less dangerous and simply annoying. Again, I don't see the benefit of moving them deeper. Hummerhorns were pretty much perfect at their current depth. When I see them before I have _Teleportation, I know I need to be extra carerful!

    Thank you for still holding out the possibility of bringing back Osse sans Nether breath. Maybe he should breathe Chaos instead?

    Ice vs Snow:
    It seems to me there is a long held tradition for Ice having connotations with evil, whereas snow mostly connotes with fluffy sorts of fun (snowmen, school days, sledding, snowball fights etc...). Maybe as an Aussie this is less obvious to you if you don't see much snow. At any rate, I'm not sure that the vague Tolkien association with "snow" will not be lost on pretty much everyone (though I appreciate your attention to detail re;Tolkien!); and therefore is probably not a worthwhile change. I imagine for this reason alone; and to hold some kind of consistency with the greater lore/consciousness at large (cross-platforms, cross mediums) Ice troll...giant... whatever, should remain Ice, and not be changed to snow. Maybe snow troll could be added as a weaker, younger brother to ice trolls? (just as white wolves are weaker versions of cold hounds). I actually don't mind "snow troll" and it kinda has a nice ring to it, but personally I'd much rather have it added than replacing ice trolls. But maybe an an appeal to tradition is, as fph points out in another certain thread, not always the wisest or best way forward.

    Given that we have hill orc, having hill troll seems reasonable to me. I never did understand what a water troll was (a troll that lives near water? lives in water? swims around in the water?) Here I think is a missed opportunity to bring in some themes from Beowulf: namely from the bog or fen. This seems like a very fitting theme for Angband and I seem to recall from my Beowulf class many years ago that the bog or fen has a rich history in the mythologies that influenced Tolkien; and it played a pretty big part in Lord of the Rings (the marshes).

    Hearthstone has two such thematic creatures: The Bog Creeper and the Fen Creeper. I think these are great names for monsters in Angband. Probably a bit late for me to be suggesting such creatures now, but maybe sometime down the line they could be considered: if we are going to lose a "water" monster (one I never cared for), maybe we could replace it with something much better: Fen Creeper and give it Grendel's description (the only one I could find at the moment is from some cliff notes:

    "Although Grendel looks something like a man — having two arms (or claws), two legs, and one head — he is much larger and can defeat dozens of men at a time. He is protected from man's weapons by a magic charm. He devours some of the dead on the spot and carries others back to his lair, the cave he shares with his mother beneath a pool of water in a dark swamp. (Sounds like a wicked video game villain, doesn't he?)" That he does! *wink *wink. Although maybe Grendel was more of an Ogre than a Troll. While I'm at it I wonder if we shouldn't get Grendel as a unique in Angband?

    Fury sounds good! Look forward to encountering it; a proper name for a deep dangerous demon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Derakon
    replied
    Related question: what does Dragon Scale Mail of Annihilation do? What about Sky Dragon Scale Mail?

    Leave a comment:


  • PowerWyrm
    replied
    Originally posted by Derakon
    The basic dragon types all have baby, young, mature, ancient, and great-wyrm variants. The more exotic ones have drake and great-wyrm variants. Except now there's a couple of dragon types that only have drake or that only have great-wyrm. I don't think it's vital to hew to the previously-established pattern -- I'll admit I never questioned why the Sky Drake in ToME was a 'D' and didn't have a lesser 'd' version. But I also don't see why we'd remove perfectly functional dragon types. Great Wyrms of Law have probably one of the nastier sets of breath options in the game (sound/shards), and Great Wyrms of Chaos had some neat mental imagery to them. And I don't feel like the game has too many dragons in it currently
    Agreed. That's why I reworked the dragons in PWMAngband so each breed has full baby-young-mature-ancient-wyrm evolution, and I've even split the wyrms into Great Wyrm (+10 speed, SUMMON_DRAGON) and Ancient Wyrm (+20 speed, SUMMON_HI_DRAGON) for even more challenge at depths 90+. The only "lone" dragons remaining are Draco-lisks/liches and Sky Drakes.

    Leave a comment:


  • PowerWyrm
    replied
    Thx for the answers

    "ToME's sky drakes, but buffed a bit"

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    You know that in ToME a Sky Drake is like a Tarrasque that can summon more Tarrasques. I wonder how it could be "buffed a bit"... ROFL

    Leave a comment:


  • Derakon
    replied
    The basic dragon types all have baby, young, mature, ancient, and great-wyrm variants. The more exotic ones have drake and great-wyrm variants. Except now there's a couple of dragon types that only have drake or that only have great-wyrm. I don't think it's vital to hew to the previously-established pattern -- I'll admit I never questioned why the Sky Drake in ToME was a 'D' and didn't have a lesser 'd' version. But I also don't see why we'd remove perfectly functional dragon types. Great Wyrms of Law have probably one of the nastier sets of breath options in the game (sound/shards), and Great Wyrms of Chaos had some neat mental imagery to them. And I don't feel like the game has too many dragons in it currently.

    Also, personal opinion: it should be Sky Wyrm, not Sky Dragon, especially if it's at a similar tier as our existing great wyrms.

    As an aside, something I think would be worth looking into is the remaining "<adjective> <color> <animal>" monsters, like Large Brown Snake, Giant White Tick, etc. They're probably the dullest monsters we have in terms of characteristics and theme, and they're all over the early game, which will color newbies' perceptions of what the game is like.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    Ok so it seems the work on monsters come to an end. Time to make a review and give my feelings!
    I'll answer as best I can.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - hummerhorn
    - neekerbreeker

    Wat?? They were not annoying enough at their depth now they're buffed??
    I agreed - they're deeper, but unchanged.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - nruling

    Sorry, but this is more a snoozing than a name which nobody will ever understand unless lerning the description by heart. I already struggle to remember Hezrou and company, would be better to find a name that's immediately recognizable (hint: I'd also rename the high demons, they're all D&D based and I don't see a meaning in Angband -- could steal the names from Sil no?)
    This is from O, where it's incredibly memorable because it's like the most annoying thing possible. It could have a different name, but for the most part when I've taken things from variants I've tried to keep the same names.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - erinyes

    Don't get it. Why only this one? Like said above, would be better to rename all the D&D demons using Sil names (Rauko), feels more thematic.
    I thought all the early demons were a bit samey, so picked this one to ... well, replace, really. Erinyes were the furies in Greek mythology, so I made a new demon called fury and put it much deeper.

    This is not the only monster in the removed list that could have been in the replaced list - it was a bit arbitrary where I drew the line for that post.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - aranea, elder aranea

    Don't get it either. Those are perfectly fine, and you added spider of Gorgoroth instead. Clearly it should have been a pure replacement: aranea -> spider of Gorgoroth (the bats with same name come in groups so it should fit the group mob better), elder aranea -> elder spider (well there's that new "ancient spider" too)
    Again, kind of a replacement. These were kind of copied from Sil and kind of from FA and definitely based on Tolkien lore (I'm going to start quoting, and not for the last time...): "...other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed ... her offspring abode there"

    So ancient spiders are her mates, and spiders of Gorgoroth her offspring (you may notice they're very like Shelob).

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - dark elf to eastern dwarf
    - dark elven mage to blacklock mage
    - dark elven warrior to stonefoot warrior
    - dark elven priest to ironfist priest
    - dark elven lord to dark dwarven lord
    - dark elven sorcerer to stiffbeard sorcerer

    Sorry, but that's clearly the change I like the least. The "dark elf" based monsters are a whole and would be replaced by some obscure stuff only a minority of people would understand about. Are those dwarven races? I don't get it... Why not simply use elven names instead? Would have been way easier to remember... Avari, Teleri, Noldor, Sindar...
    My problem with dark elves is that the Silmarillion dark elves existed, but were peaceful and lived like other elves, rather than being evil underground dwellers like is built into the DNA of D&D dark elves.

    Yes, those are dwarven races - see this page for some details. Tolkien also wrote elsewhere that some of the eastern kindreds of the dwarves would have come under Morgoth's influence. And I really like the names

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - ice troll to snow troll

    What was wrong with "ice"?
    Quoting again, from the story of Helm Hammerhand:"He would go out by himself, clad in white, and stalk like a snow-troll into the camps of his enemies..."

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - The Cat Lord to Tevildo, Prince of Cats

    Aha! See you can steal stuff from Sil...
    Well from O actually

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    "20 monsters replaced"

    So what's the difference between "renamed" and "replaced"? Just the depth differs?
    Renamed usually means they're (pretty much) unchanged, whereas replace means substantially changed, but like with rename vs remove/new it's a bit blurry.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - brown yeek by terrified yeek

    Huh? What's the point? They were brown because they were ****ing in their pants? I don't see why the color was a problem...
    Color wasn't a problem, but this name is more descriptive.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - dark elven druid by drúadan druid

    Again this makes no sense. And even breaks the new theme, if it's to replace elves with dwarves. Just need to find a coherent theme for all dark elves and stick to it.
    The druedain (the wild men of the woods from LoTR) seemed like better druids than dwarves would.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - giant grey scorpion by giant black scorpion

    From O, including the name. Buffed and shallower...

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - water troll by hill troll

    Again I don't get it. Must have missed some discussion somewhere because some of the changes don't seem to me really needed.
    Hill trolls are the trolls from the final battle before the black gate in LoTR; Pippin stabs one and then it falls and crushes him and he barely survives.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - Medusa, the Gorgon by (non-unique) gorgon
    - The Lernaean Hydra by (non-unique) 9-headed hydra

    Nobody could come up with a replacement for these? They're out of theme, but it's sad to lose them.
    I couldn't think of anything better for Medusa, and hydras I have reworked so that each one is like the previous one but with an extra head and blow.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - ethereal hound by hound of Tindalos

    Those are still breathing nether? Cos the ToME variant breathes time...
    Yes, yes, and disenchantment

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    - Great Wyrm of Chaos by great wyrm of annihilation
    - Great Wyrm of Law by sky dragon

    Why? The Balance one is untouched, and chaos/law drakes still exist. I don't feel like this is really needed... If you really want a sky dragon, add the Sky Drake from ToME.
    Sky dragons are like ToME's sky drakes, but buffed a bit

    I was happy enough leaving the chaos and law drakes, but thought the wyrms were a little lame. I could remove/redo all the law/chaos/balance dragons, but I was actually trying not to do meaningless changes...

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    Overall it's still not as bad as I think it would be.
    Well, that's something.

    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    I wonder who will rework all the tilesets to adapt the new changes now...
    *sigh*

    Leave a comment:


  • PowerWyrm
    replied
    Ok so it seems the work on monsters come to an end. Time to make a review and give my feelings!

    "5 monsters moved shallower"

    Fine

    "68 monsters moved deeper (and usually buffed)"

    Fine except:

    - hummerhorn
    - neekerbreeker

    Wat?? They were not annoying enough at their depth now they're buffed??

    "41 new monsters"

    - tamer, witch, blackguard...

    Good. They match player classes and I look forward to adding more to PWMAngband since I have more classes (sorceror, unbeliever...)

    - nruling

    Sorry, but this is more a snoozing than a name which nobody will ever understand unless lerning the description by heart. I already struggle to remember Hezrou and company, would be better to find a name that's immediately recognizable (hint: I'd also rename the high demons, they're all D&D based and I don't see a meaning in Angband -- could steal the names from Sil no?)

    - lord of Carn D&#251;m

    Ow... in PWMAngband, I've renamed to base town Carn D&#251;m because it's close to the old realm of Angmar and thought it would be a perfect name. I don't see why its lords should be roaming the dungeon

    Rest is fine by me.

    "23 monsters removed"

    - acidic cytoplasm, black pudding

    Good riddance!

    - erinyes

    Don't get it. Why only this one? Like said above, would be better to rename all the D&D demons using Sil names (Rauko), feels more thematic.

    - aranea, elder aranea

    Don't get it either. Those are perfectly fine, and you added spider of Gorgoroth instead. Clearly it should have been a pure replacement: aranea -> spider of Gorgoroth (the bats with same name come in groups so it should fit the group mob better), elder aranea -> elder spider (well there's that new "ancient spider" too)

    Rest is fine by me.

    "17 monsters renamed"

    - dark elf to eastern dwarf
    - dark elven mage to blacklock mage
    - dark elven warrior to stonefoot warrior
    - dark elven priest to ironfist priest
    - dark elven lord to dark dwarven lord
    - dark elven sorcerer to stiffbeard sorcerer

    Sorry, but that's clearly the change I like the least. The "dark elf" based monsters are a whole and would be replaced by some obscure stuff only a minority of people would understand about. Are those dwarven races? I don't get it... Why not simply use elven names instead? Would have been way easier to remember... Avari, Teleri, Noldor, Sindar...

    - ice troll to snow troll

    What was wrong with "ice"?

    - The Cat Lord to Tevildo, Prince of Cats

    Aha! See you can steal stuff from Sil...

    "20 monsters replaced"

    So what's the difference between "renamed" and "replaced"? Just the depth differs?

    - brown yeek by terrified yeek

    Huh? What's the point? They were brown because they were ****ing in their pants? I don't see why the color was a problem...

    - dark elven druid by drúadan druid

    Again this makes no sense. And even breaks the new theme, if it's to replace elves with dwarves. Just need to find a coherent theme for all dark elves and stick to it.

    - giant grey scorpion by giant black scorpion



    - water troll by hill troll

    Again I don't get it. Must have missed some discussion somewhere because some of the changes don't seem to me really needed.

    - Medusa, the Gorgon by (non-unique) gorgon
    - The Lernaean Hydra by (non-unique) 9-headed hydra

    Nobody could come up with a replacement for these? They're out of theme, but it's sad to lose them.

    - ethereal hound by hound of Tindalos

    Those are still breathing nether? Cos the ToME variant breathes time...

    - Great Wyrm of Chaos by great wyrm of annihilation
    - Great Wyrm of Law by sky dragon

    Why? The Balance one is untouched, and chaos/law drakes still exist. I don't feel like this is really needed... If you really want a sky dragon, add the Sky Drake from ToME.

    Overall it's still not as bad as I think it would be.
    I wonder who will rework all the tilesets to adapt the new changes now...

    Leave a comment:


  • mrfy
    replied
    Originally posted by Nick
    This is rather a long post, but I think it was worth doing a summary before saying this is ready for master branch. I'm very interested to hear what people think about the totality of this branch. Regardless of all other considerations it's been a lot of fun
    So far I like it a lot. I haven't been too deep (only at 1000' now) and have had to restart a few times. Terrified yeeks certainly add a dimension to earlier levels ("OMG they shrieked and are waking everything up"). Enjoying finding other monster changes and learning how to deal with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nick
    replied
    Here is a summary of the monster changes made on this branch:

    5 monsters moved shallower:
    Code:
    giant black louse
    Bert the Stone Troll
    Bill the Stone Troll
    Tom the Stone Troll
    emperor wight
    68 monsters moved deeper (and usually buffed):
    Code:
    Mirkwood spider
    hummerhorn
    neekerbreeker
    phase spider
    energy vortex
    killer white beetle
    giant firefly
    wereworm
    troll priest
    white wraith
    ogre mage
    colbran
    Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
    shade
    spectre
    mature white dragon
    mature blue dragon
    mature green dragon
    dread
    shadow
    phantom
    grey wraith
    mature red dragon
    mature gold dragon
    mature black dragon
    The Queen Ant
    mature multi-hued dragon
    black wraith
    nether wraith
    Kavlax the Many-Headed
    storm giant
    ancient blue dragon
    ancient white dragon
    ancient green dragon
    Uvatha the Horseman
    ancient black dragon
    ancient red dragon
    ancient gold dragon
    hezrou
    vampire lord
    Adunaphel the Quiet
    ancient multi-hued dragon
    dreadmaster
    drolem
    death drake
    great crystal drake
    Akhorahil the Blind
    ethereal dragon
    Scatha the Worm
    Ren the Unclean
    Smaug the Golden
    Ji Indur Dawndeath
    storm of Unmagic
    elder vampire
    Dwar, Dog Lord of Waw
    eye druj
    skull druj
    great storm wyrm
    great ice wyrm
    great swamp wyrm
    Hoarmurath of Dir
    great hell wyrm
    great bile wyrm
    Great Wyrm of Thunder
    Glaurung, Father of the Dragons
    Kham&#251;l, the Black Easterling
    Great Wyrm of Balance
    Great Wyrm of Many Colours
    greater Balrog
    The Witch-King of Angmar
    41 new monsters:
    Code:
    tamer
    witch
    old forest tree
    blackguard
    Old Man Willow
    blood falcon
    nruling
    necromancer
    abyss worm mass
    Beorn, the Mountain Bear (shape only)
    green elf archer
    huorn
    serpent of the brownlands
    abyss spider
    black-hearted huorn
    Maia of Nienna
    Maia of Mandos
    lord of Carn D&#251;m
    ancient spider
    Maia of Oromë
    hasty ent
    Gilim, the Giant of Eruman
    Maia of Yavanna
    Maia of Aulë
    great earth elemental (shape only)
    werewolf of Sauron
    spider of Gorgoroth
    Maia of Ulmo
    great water elemental (shape only)
    Fëanorian raider
    Nan, the Giant
    Maia of Manwë
    Maia of Varda
    Makar, the Warrior
    serpent of chaos
    fury
    Wiruin, the Maelstrom
    Meássë, the Bloody
    Wolf-Sauron (shape only)
    Serpent-Sauron (shape only)
    Vampire-Sauron (shape only)
    23 monsters removed:
    Code:
    large brown snake
    large yellow snake
    healer
    manes
    nighthawk
    drider
    giant brown tick
    lesser Maia
    acidic cytoplasm
    black pudding
    erinyes
    aranea
    greater Maia
    knight Templar
    Blue Wizard
    elder aranea
    Istar
    Arien, Maia of the Sun
    Ossë, Herald of Ulmo
    Radagast the Brown
    Polyphemus, the Blind Cyclops
    Atlas, the Titan
    Kronos, Lord of the Titans
    17 monsters renamed:
    Code:
    jackal to wild dog
    dark elf to eastern dwarf
    bandit to ruffian
    dark elven mage to blacklock mage
    dark elven warrior to stonefoot warrior
    gnome mage to drúadan mage
    dark elven priest to ironfist priest
    Easterling warrior to warrior
    dark elven lord to dark dwarven lord
    Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai to Azog, Enemy of the Dwarves
    master rogue to brigand
    algroth to troll scavenger
    ice troll to snow troll
    ninja to southron assassin
    necromancer to dúnadan of Angmar
    dark elven sorcerer to stiffbeard sorcerer
    The Cat Lord to Tevildo, Prince of Cats
    20 monsters replaced (usually at the same level, but 6 deeper and 1 shallower):
    Code:
    raven by crow of Durthang
    brown yeek by terrified yeek
    hill orc by orc tracker
    brigand by rogue
    black orc by orc archer
    dark elven druid by drúadan druid
    half-troll by troll blackguard
    giant grey scorpion by giant black scorpion
    water troll by hill troll
    dagashi by southron archer
    greater mummy by mummified chieftain
    eldrak by mountain troll
    7-headed hydra by 6-headed hydra
    9-headed hydra by 7-headed hydra
    Medusa, the Gorgon by (non-unique) gorgon
    11-headed hydra by 8-headed hydra
    The Lernaean Hydra by (non-unique) 9-headed hydra
    ethereal hound by hound of Tindalos
    Great Wyrm of Chaos by great wyrm of annihilation
    Great Wyrm of Law by sky dragon
    A few general themes to note:
    • A lot of the buffed/moved deeper monsters are accounted for by an overall rework of wraiths, dragons and ghosts
    • Monsters were usually replaced or removed because of being either (a) in conflict with theme or (b) boring
    • Many of the new monsters (and some of the other changes) were due to overall reworking of Ainur and spiders, introduction of new monster shapes, and introduction of trees/ents
    • Worth noting also are the move to have a monster named after each player class plus a novice version of each, and significant reworks of orcs, trolls and hydras
    • There were also quite a few other changes to existing monsters
    and a few more targeted issues and potential further changes:
    • The new lord of Carn D&#251;m is essentially the old patriarch, and the new patriarch is not far off the old knight Templar; that said, I quite like Grotug's idea of renaming knight Templar as corsair, or something
    • Perhaps Ossë should come back without the nether breath


    This is rather a long post, but I think it was worth doing a summary before saying this is ready for master branch. I'm very interested to hear what people think about the totality of this branch. Regardless of all other considerations it's been a lot of fun

    Leave a comment:


  • Grotug
    replied
    I will play this new version soon; but one of the things that I've come to appreciate (and even like) about Angband is all the different ways the DL40s are super scary; and knight templars were very formidable in this function. The knight templars fill an important niche as they are one of the few dangerous people that hit hard, cast spells and don't summon much. Is it possible they could remain but get renamed; maybe Corsair Knight? Knight Templars are a good complement to all the other dangerous breathers and summoners; I think he rounds out the midgame bestiary very nicely. I know we have berserkers but they really are a very different animal, quite literally, being more like a monster or a feral barbarian in a blinding rage, trampling over weaker monsters..

    Oh, and I also wouldn't mind seeing greedy little gnomes running around in the shallower depths of the dungeons.

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