Increasing home size

[werepacman]

Not sure what you mean by "party of fun". Plenty of fun?

This was autocorrection I meant part of fun.

I am astonished to learn that someone could actually regard picking up a currently useless and very common item and hauling it to town as fun.

Not everyone knows what items are: 1) useless and 2) very common.

For me it was hard to decide which resistance is important. For example disenchantment sounds bad, but after you win you know there are very few monsters which can disenchant.
Of course the more I play the more easy I throw away items. So I consider this as a part of a game learning.

In current game I don't feel any need for additional space. I supported the idea with chests not because I see a severe need but because collecting benefits is a part of RPG game: more experience, more good staff, more space.

[Zireael]

Uh, if chests are very common junk right now, why don't make them less common useful thing?

[mrrstark]

collecting benefits is a part of RPG game: more experience, more good staff, more space.

It'd be maybe neat if home-size increases were a loot drop.
"Blueprints for Home Renovation" or something.

You'd pick those up when a monster drops them, take them to a shop, pay the carpenter's fees, and have your house storage expanded by a couple slots. Storage could start small and grow, and how much and fast scales on your playstyle i.e. how much you prioritize picking up the blueprints vs. other inventory/drops.

[mushroom patch]

Uh, if chests are very common junk right now, why don't make them less common useful thing?

1.) The proposal being discussed would not make them useful.

2.) If something is common and useless, it should be removed, not changed to be useful. See dwarf skeletons, shards of pottery, etc.

In current game I don't feel any need for additional space. I supported the idea with chests not because I see a severe need but because collecting benefits is a part of RPG game: more experience, more good staff, more space.

I think you should reckon with the possibility that someone will think this kind of thing is useful/necessary/optimal play and feel ill-used upon realizing it is completely the opposite. Hoarding items just to have them around is not going to help you win. Giving players the option to improve their hoarding capabilities through grinding encourages them to believe it will help them.

Grinding and scumming are bad, not good. It's important to realize this. Grinding and collecting when it is unnecessary prevents players from appreciating the depths of games by oversupplying them with resources so that they do not need to understand the mechanics of the game as well to win (or just sidetracks them with meaningless tasks so they that the actual goal is lost). Games in which grinding and scumming are necessary are worse for it -- this is repetitive tedium, almost as a matter of definition.

[werepacman]

Some players like to go to final fight as soon as possible, while others may like to stroll on 99 and collect items to face Morgot with full power. I think it is different styles of playing and everything is OK because people have fun. Sometimes grinding is even important, for example you reached 99 lvl but don't have necessary items. The game process is fun, otherwise game can be cut to generating character with 50 lvl and random equipment for just one final fight.

[mushroom patch]

I am not saying that grinding is never important. I'm saying that when it is, that's a design flaw. (I recognize that some games are designed to make money rather than to provide a clean and compelling game experience and in these games, hooking the player with repetitive tasks makes sense.) It's true, in angband it's optimal to grind for consumables in the endgame most of the time. It would be great if there were a good proposal to address this, because it's not good.

While there are probably "play styles" that involve goofying off and not winning (which is fine), games with actual objectives shouldn't cater to them. Doing so sends the player the message that, for example, hauling empty treasure chests is what they're supposed to be doing to progress in the game.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Many years ago, in the long ago days of Dungeons and Dragons, there was once a magical item known as the "portable hole". A piece of black cloth that you could fold up and put in your pocket. But what a piece of cloth it was! An extra-dimensional 15' cubed space where you could store all kinds of things (including the kitchen sink). And when you put things in there, the cloth never weighed anything more than the few ounces of fabric. I've often wished I had one of those in real life.

However, I have to agree with those on this forum that are against the idea of an ever expanding home, whether that expansion is through paginated menus, additional rooms, hauling chests out of the dungeon to add storage space, or even a portable hole. Being a pack rat doesn't help learn to win the game. Sure, one could conceivably haul any potential item out and store it in an infinite home against the day of eventually taking on Morgoth. But all that wasted time and effort actually increases the amount of time the player is exposed to risks. Plus, one of the inherent challenges of the game is to manage inventory, including the limited space in the home. Let's not add portable holes to this game.

[Malak Darkhunter]

The only thing I would wish here is a mathom house to drop artifacts into so you can go back and look at them...you can't get them back of course because that would be unfair to the game. The reason I would wish this is because I absolutely hate dropping artifacts and getting rid of them permanently to make more room in the house and to clean out uneeded artifacts. I enjoy looking at what I've found throughout the game, and that helps sometimes plan for the next game, and I enjoy reading their descriptions.

[AnonymousHero]

Being a pack rat doesn't help learn to win the game. Sure, one could conceivably haul any potential item out and store it in an infinite home against the day of eventually taking on Morgoth. But all that wasted time and effort actually increases the amount of time the player is exposed to risks. Plus, one of the inherent challenges of the game is to manage inventory, including the limited space in the home. Let's not add portable holes to this game.

No, but it removes the tedium of having to decide permanently between items which may not have much to differentiate them. If it's a challenge, then it's a boring and entirely invented one! (It's basically in the same realm as Identify vs. *Identify*.). An infinite home lets the player spend more time in the dungeon, advancing the game.

Infinite home works (gameplay-wise) marvelously in, say, Entroband/Chengband, so I see no reason it shouldn't work in Vanilla. (Implementation details aside, of course.)

[Cold_Heart]

Please increase the home size. This is much needed.

+100% more slots for 100k gold

then 200k
then 400k
then 800k 1.6kk 3.2kk ...

makes somewhat decent gold sink too

[MattB]

Please increase the home size. This is much needed.

+100% more slots for 100k gold

then 200k
then 400k
then 800k 1.6kk 3.2kk ...

makes somewhat decent gold sink too

I don't think this is a bad idea. But I would want something like:

+2 slots for 100k
+2 slots for 200k
+2 slots for 400k
etc. etc.

As Cold Heart says, it would be good to get rid of gold somehow.

[Zireael]

I like the idea of buying space with gold. Exact numbers may vary

[the Invisible Stalker]

If it's a challenge, then it's a boring and entirely invented one!

All challenges in Angband are entirely invented. People seem to differ on what they find boring. I find melee tedious, for example, but judging from the number of warriors on the ladder clearly some people enjoy it.

[MattB]

All challenges in Angband are entirely invented. People seem to differ on what they find boring. I find melee tedious, for example, but judging from the number of warriors on the ladder clearly some people enjoy it.

Quite right. I find spells boring.
Ah, for the thrill of holding down an arrow key for as long as you dare before releasing it...it's a drug to me!

[AnonymousHero]

All challenges in Angband are entirely invented. People seem to differ on what they find boring. I find melee tedious, for example, but judging from the number of warriors on the ladder clearly some people enjoy it.

Sorry, should have said "artificial" or "pointless", I guess. Melee/Magic, whatever... that's an intrinsic part of the game that gets you closer to the actual goal, killing the big P. Shuffling inventory and equipment... no so much. (Well it does in a very roundabout way, but, personally it takes me at least 30 min. and an existential quandry of "why, exactly, am I playing this game?" before I get back into the dungeon. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I'm alone in finding the inevitable equip/house-shuffle tedious and boring.)