Increasing home size

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  • MattB
    Veteran
    • Mar 2013
    • 1214

    Originally posted by strato
    Although I'm sure it's obvious, no one has mentioned yet that changing home size could (and probably should, if it's implemented) be made a birth option.
    Well, the problem is that if I'm allowed a big home, I'll have a big home. And enjoy the game less as a result. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm in the minority, if that is indeed the case. Poll time?

    Comment

    • Ingwe Ingweron
      Veteran
      • Jan 2009
      • 2129

      Originally posted by MattB
      ...I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm in the minority, if that is indeed the case....
      I'm with you. Sure, I find it difficult to decide what to keep and what to discard, but that's part of the difficulty level of the game. Unlike game changes that have been made to relieve repetitive tedium, changing the home size directly changes game difficulty. Making hard choices is one of the things that makes the game interesting.
      “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
      ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

      Comment

      • MattB
        Veteran
        • Mar 2013
        • 1214

        Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
        I'm with you. Sure, I find it difficult to decide what to keep and what to discard, but that's part of the difficulty level of the game. Unlike game changes that have been made to relieve repetitive tedium, changing the home size directly changes game difficulty. Making hard choices is one of the things that makes the game interesting.
        Glad it's not just me, then!

        Comment

        • AnonymousHero
          Veteran
          • Jun 2007
          • 1393

          Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
          I'm with you. Sure, I find it difficult to decide what to keep and what to discard, but that's part of the difficulty level of the game. Unlike game changes that have been made to relieve repetitive tedium, changing the home size directly changes game difficulty. Making hard choices is one of the things that makes the game interesting.
          It has been argued (at perhaps excessive length!) that it doesn't change the difficulty of the game substantially. I take it that you disagree. Could you elaborate on why you think that? (Even if it's just to point to previous posts.)

          Comment

          • wobbly
            Prophet
            • May 2012
            • 2628

            Originally posted by MattB
            Well, the problem is that if I'm allowed a big home, I'll have a big home. And enjoy the game less as a result. I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm in the minority, if that is indeed the case. Poll time?
            Even if the default setting is the standard home and you have to change the settings to get the larger home?

            Comment

            • MattB
              Veteran
              • Mar 2013
              • 1214

              Originally posted by wobbly
              Even if the default setting is the standard home and you have to change the settings to get the larger home?
              Yes. Unless it was called a 'cheat option' then I wouldn't do it.
              I can't justify or explain my behaviour, it is what it is.

              Comment

              • Estie
                Veteran
                • Apr 2008
                • 2344

                I might enjoy restricted storage if I found it difficult to decide what to keep and what to dump, but alas, I do not. It is very straightforward and simple, as the item puzzle is unfortunately not very complex.

                The only effect restricted storage has for me is to make sure most of my toons have the same setup, namely the most likely one. For example, I might find a randart helm with high AC, but Ill never use it, because chances are that the helmet slot has to cover ESP; so I dump the AC hat for space reasons, and if I happen to get ESP covered elsewhere later, I make do without AC. The majority of my characters end up with great weapon of extra attacks or HA, speed ring, damage ring, helm of telepathy, shield of preservation.

                This applies to randart games; with standarts, the space is sufficient because knowing whats in the deck allows to rule out many items for the endgame setup.

                Comment

                • Ingwe Ingweron
                  Veteran
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 2129

                  Originally posted by AnonymousHero
                  It has been argued (at perhaps excessive length!) that it doesn't change the difficulty of the game substantially. I take it that you disagree. Could you elaborate on why you think that? (Even if it's just to point to previous posts.)
                  Perhaps for someone with lot's of Angband game experience, fabulous memory, or plain old precognition, the decisions between weapons and armor are easy, but for me making those decisions is hard. If I had a virtually unlimited home the element of hard decision making would be removed. So, to me, an unlimited home would make the game dramatically easier. No hard decisions. Not something I would want, by the way.
                  “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                  ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                  Comment

                  • AnonymousHero
                    Veteran
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 1393

                    Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                    Perhaps for someone with lot's of Angband game experience, fabulous memory, or plain old precognition, the decisions between weapons and armor are easy, but for me making those decisions is hard. If I had a virtually unlimited home the element of hard decision making would be removed. So, to me, an unlimited home would make the game dramatically easier. No hard decisions. Not something I would want, by the way.
                    I really don't understand this -- what's hard about it? It's just time-consuming AFAICT.

                    If you're playing with randarts there's also absolutely no way of knowing what you might find in the future (unless you elect to keep the randart set from game to game), so you should essentially be making a decision based your experience of the statistical likelihood of the distribution of flags (pStun, Imm*, etc.) and the desirability of those flags/resistances for the end game.

                    If you're playing with standarts there's actually very little you have remember.

                    I guess we might be going around in circles at this point -- I'll stop now .

                    Comment

                    • mushroom patch
                      Swordsman
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 298

                      Guys, the reason you're worried about what to keep is that you're holding onto old fashioned ideas about covering all resistances. I agree, if that's your goal, it's not straightforward to figure out what to keep and what not to. It's not easy to put together a set of equipment that gives you all resistances and doesn't suck for other reasons. It's a tricky thing.

                      The key thing is: Most resistances are irrelevant. You don't need them! This means that getting good equipment is way, way easier to do and you don't need to worry about what you keep in home so much.

                      Comment

                      • AnonymousHero
                        Veteran
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 1393

                        Originally posted by mushroom patch
                        Guys, the reason you're worried about what to keep is that you're holding onto old fashioned ideas about covering all resistances
                        No, as has been explained, at least some of us have mildly obsessive tendendies and cannot stand "missing" a resistance which we could have had. I'm perfectly aware that it's very possible to win without filling every resistance hole, etc. My obsessive tendencies force me to spend much too much time "managing" what's in the home.

                        Comment

                        • Cold_Heart
                          Adept
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 141

                          There is nothing wrong with having lots of things stored in your home. A seasoned adventurer will not discard an item that can be even remotely useful in future. The fact that there is no any permanent storage in the world aside from character inventory and player's house is simply a sad consequence of game implementation. And the fact that this provides some vague additional difficulty I think is a misunderstanding at best.

                          Comment

                          • EpicMan
                            Swordsman
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 455

                            The real inventory limit is what you can carry with you in the dungeon. Adding more inventory space directly increases player power because you can carry another swap, more consumables, more ammo, but adding more house space only means you throw away less home items to make room for others.
                            Does it make the game easier? Technically yes, since you could keep a useful item you would otherwise have to discard, but it's a very small difference.

                            It won't make obbessive-behavior substantially worse because there is ALREADY a home that can be filled and optimized, you have to remove the home entirely to take away the temptation.

                            Comment

                            • Timo Pietilä
                              Prophet
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 4096

                              Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                              Perhaps for someone with lot's of Angband game experience, fabulous memory, or plain old precognition, the decisions between weapons and armor are easy, but for me making those decisions is hard. If I had a virtually unlimited home the element of hard decision making would be removed. So, to me, an unlimited home would make the game dramatically easier. No hard decisions. Not something I would want, by the way.
                              I have this same as well.

                              I have played this game long enough to pretty much know what you can get, so I have these combinations in my mind that are not yet possible, but if I get just two more pieces of artifacts then this currently useless piece of equipment suddenly becomes useful. This makes abandoning stuff from home hard.

                              Arvedui & Rohirrim & Isildur at home, need space for one great, not yet useful item, so which one to throw away? Isildur gives +CON and rNexus over Rohirrim but I will be using Trickery in late game, so rNexus doesn't matter even if it is useful right now. +CON might. OTOH Rohirrim gives +DEX and +STR, both combat stats, and if (when) I find Cambeleg I might want that instead of +CON from Isildur. Arvedui has rShard and rNexus. rShard is very useful in late game, so wanting to keep that too, but it lacks +DEX and +CON which other two give.

                              So, which one to toss away?

                              That's constant problem. Every time I find some piece of equipment that is good, and could be even better if I find some other piece of equipment, and I have similar setup already at home, which one to keep and which to abandon.

                              Infinite home would make that go away and make game to me much easier.

                              Comment

                              • AnonymousHero
                                Veteran
                                • Jun 2007
                                • 1393

                                Originally posted by Timo Pietilä
                                I have this same as well.

                                I have played this game long enough to pretty much know what you can get, so I have these combinations in my mind that are not yet possible, but if I get just two more pieces of artifacts then this currently useless piece of equipment suddenly becomes useful. This makes abandoning stuff from home hard.
                                I find that there's enough room to store all interesting combinations of gear with standarts, or at least standarts which are actually end-game relevant. You already know what could possibly drop in the future and what is likely. Add to that that there are "sets" of standarts which compliment each other nicely. (This predictability, incidentally, also makes standart games completely uninteresting to me.)

                                With randarts you're asked to make this game-influencing decision based on information you don't actually have (unless you've looked at the spoilers and repeat the same randart game). I find that silly and annoying. After a while you do have some idea of how common/rare various flags and attributes are, but humans are terrible probability estimators, so it's not going to be anywhere near as good an intuition as after playing standarts for ages. In fact, there was quite a long period where pStun couldn't actually be generated at all on randarts and I only noticed because I generated hundreds of game spoilers (don't ask).

                                Regarding difficulty: I really don't understand the thinking that this is difficulty. To me, the game's difficulty is determined by what is at hand (i.e. in your inventory) when you're in the dungeon. You might argue that it gives you a little more flexibility for what to put in your inventory when your aim is to do a certain specific tasks (e.g. "go kill Sauron", etc.), but that's such a small part of the game...

                                EDIT: Also: Is this good difficulty (as in: is it exciting to be challenged this way), or is it boring (mechanical) difficulty?

                                I dunno, maybe we're just talking past each other because we have different play styles overall and that influences our perception of what's difficult and not difficult.

                                Comment

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