Angband 3.5.0 released!

[Mondkalb]

They are? I thought when I probed the GCD (with Gandalf's staff), it said "...it can breathe shards", but with no damage numbers. I might have missed it, but I thought it never included breath-damage numbers. It does include melee attack numbers and other effects like "mana bolts (x)", but I thought breath attacks were always just described as breath, but with no damage numbers.

That's what I thought. Maybe they only show up when you really have lived through it.
What I was proposing: The probing spells/staffs/rods should reveal these numbers, regarding the discussion of accessibility for new players. Otherwise there are a lot of these gotcha moments that all the experinced players have had. ^^

[Malak Darkhunter]

Ah right, I remember you reporting this last time around. I'm sorry but I don't have the time or expertise to try and track down bugs in a wine-run version.

Slapping in my windows 7 64bit hardrive, Angband fonts work much better, and more reliably, easier to configure and display screens don't have invisible writing.

Ubuntu 13.10 is kind of buggy anyways, some of the newer Xorg display drivers don't work as well with intel laptops with switchable graphics, 12.04 LTS is much more reliable a platform.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Angband 3.5 best release yet, Kudo's to all the development team!

all I can say is wow, very fun, early levels are no longer boring, there is actaul in depth play that makes you think and strategize, hidden dangers, ran into a zoo at level 5, with Killer beetles, Scorpions, and stegocentipedes! was amazed, in earlier versions levels 1-20 where boring, with only the occasional unique to spice things up, but the danger of grouped monsters in rooms, and packs of adventures makes the game interesting now, defenitly an improvement. I am also pleased to see stores offereing better equipment, the town has become more interesting again. I am actually pretty excited to play this one.

One thing I am noticing is that my Half-Troll is shooting wands of wonder,confuse,sleep, like a pro..you would think he would have some difficulty using these as he is a warrior, also picking locks on doors like a pro as well..these kind of skills should be more difficulty to that particular race/type combo, so in a way it still feels easy.

But all in all I am truly enjoying this release, many thanks to all involved with developing this great game.

[fizzix]

One thing I am noticing is that my Half-Troll is shooting wands of wonder,confuse,sleep, like a pro..you would think he would have some difficulty using these as he is a warrior, also picking locks on doors like a pro as well..these kind of skills should be more difficulty to that particular race/type combo, so in a way it still feels easy.

Yeah, this part almost definitely needs balancing work. It's on the to-do list for sure.

[Magnate]

Yeah, this part almost definitely needs balancing work. It's on the to-do list for sure.

What changed in 3.5? I thought that was ok in 3.4, or did I just miss the feedback?

[Derakon]

As far as wands, rods, etc. are concerned, the main thing to care about is IMO how much damage they deal, not how hard they are to activate. It's not fun if your warrior needs to take 5 attempts every time they want to zap their Rod of Trap Detection or whatever. I can see the argument that they shouldn't be able to make effective use of combat wands, but I don't know of anyone doing that anyway, since they don't get the big damage multipliers from wands that e.g. a mage does.

The entire point of wands, rods, and staves is to package up magic effects in a way such that non-magicians can use them. Making them impossibly difficult to activate misses the point IMO.

That said, you might consider scaling damage with device skill more aggressively (and possibly lowering the base damage to compensate).

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

[buzzkill]

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

Well, strong characters would.

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

[Nick]

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

On the contrary, I think you've been quite restrained. I was expecting you to say that a slight change to locked doors would ruin the game and make fire and brimstone rain from the skies.

[Derakon]

Hey, I'd be all for locked doors making a meaningful difference. And if players did want to close doors at all often then some characters being unable to pick locks effectively would be meaningful. But as it stands, I don't think that there's much point in making it horribly difficult for some characters to pick locks. At the same time, I don't think that it's a problem that locked doors exist, since it can occasionally be important that the player is unable to open a door in a timely fashion (e.g. when fleeing from monsters).

Basically I'm saying I advocate leaving things as-is rather than tinkering with them, in the absence of suggestions that would make more meaningful differences. I would hope that this meets with your approval...?

[Magnate]

Hey, I'd be all for locked doors making a meaningful difference. And if players did want to close doors at all often then some characters being unable to pick locks effectively would be meaningful. But as it stands, I don't think that there's much point in making it horribly difficult for some characters to pick locks. At the same time, I don't think that it's a problem that locked doors exist, since it can occasionally be important that the player is unable to open a door in a timely fashion (e.g. when fleeing from monsters).

Basically I'm saying I advocate leaving things as-is rather than tinkering with them, in the absence of suggestions that would make more meaningful differences. I would hope that this meets with your approval...?

I really quite liked spiking doors, myself. There were seven levels of locks, once upon a time.

[Malak Darkhunter]

As far as wands, rods, etc. are concerned, the main thing to care about is IMO how much damage they deal, not how hard they are to activate. It's not fun if your warrior needs to take 5 attempts every time they want to zap their Rod of Trap Detection or whatever. I can see the argument that they shouldn't be able to make effective use of combat wands, but I don't know of anyone doing that anyway, since they don't get the big damage multipliers from wands that e.g. a mage does.

The entire point of wands, rods, and staves is to package up magic effects in a way such that non-magicians can use them. Making them impossibly difficult to activate misses the point IMO.

That said, you might consider scaling damage with device skill more aggressively (and possibly lowering the base damage to compensate).

As for locked doors, if you make them too hard to open then the player will just bash them down or tunnel through them. I don't see much point in tweaking this. I guess there's some minor effect in that bashed/tunneled doors break and can't be closed again, but you rarely need to close doors anyway.

I was able to take out 2 early game Uniques ( Wormtounge and Smeagol) with just 1 wand of wonder, never failed an activation, never got any gold stolen, never meleed them the first time...wands of wonder are hugely overpowered for the level depth that they first become availiable but that is just my opinion. This is basically always my strategy for those 2, better than using bows...phase door/potions of speed/wand of wonder...gets them everytime.
Early game warrios "should" expereince some aggravation attempting to use those devices..that's the price you pay for being a melee based character.

Now about the doors and picking locks, being able to access certain parts of the dungeon to hunt for special items and treasure adds a real game play percpective to the game, as well as fleeing from monsters but can't because you can't get past that stubborn locked door! But this is my game play perspective. for the unlucky warrior to suddenly run into a dead end while fleeing adds that level of excitement and fear to the game, but the crafty rogue might still find a way out.....

[Malak Darkhunter]

Well, strong characters would.

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Apparently, I'm being a bit of a bitch today.

For the record I have always enjoyed cursed items, especially cursed weapons of morgul, yet another fear element to the game, another way to get killed by being uncareful.

[Derakon]

I was able to take out 2 early game Uniques ( Wormtounge and Smeagol) with just 1 wand of wonder, never failed an activation, never got any gold stolen, never meleed them the first time...wands of wonder are hugely overpowered for the level depth that they first become availiable but that is just my opinion. This is basically always my strategy for those 2, better than using bows...phase door/potions of speed/wand of wonder...gets them everytime.
Early game warrios "should" expereince some aggravation attempting to use those devices..that's the price you pay for being a melee based character.

So is this a problem with warriors or with wands of wonder? You can do that with any class, but you're always rolling the dice that you don't get Haste Monster instead of Acid Ball. Just so you know, a completely unskilled character using a Wand of Wonder has a 30% chance of getting one of Clone, Haste, Heal, or Polymorph Monster out of a Wand of Wonder, and only about a 25% chance of getting one of the big-damage effects. And even early uniques are probably going to survive one shot, so you're rolling those dice several times if you want to kill them solely with Wonder.

(Next time, try using Slow Monster on them instead; it also trivializes the fight and is much more predictable)

Now about the doors and picking locks, being able to access certain parts of the dungeon to hunt for special items and treasure adds a real game play percpective to the game, as well as fleeing from monsters but can't because you can't get past that stubborn locked door! But this is my game play perspective. for the unlucky warrior to suddenly run into a dead end while fleeing adds that level of excitement and fear to the game, but the crafty rogue might still find a way out.....

That "unlucky warrior" faced with a door they can't open that's gating access to the rest of the level will simply destroy the door instead of stare in befuddlement at the tiny iron lock that's barring his way. That was my point -- not that warriors shouldn't be bad at locks, but that making them bad at locks is pointless in terms of gameplay.

[takkaria]

Well, strong characters would.

If I'm reading this correctly we're just beginning to set out on the path of removing locked doors in much the same way we removed cursed items, cause turning it into an engaging element that actually works and adds something to the game would be hard(er).

Actually, before Nick took over I was planning to remove all terrain except floor tiles, because now every floor grid is guaranteed to be connected there's not much point in having walls in the way. Now I think about it, maybe just removing locked doors would be better.

[Malak Darkhunter]

So is this a problem with warriors or with wands of wonder? You can do that with any class, but you're always rolling the dice that you don't get Haste Monster instead of Acid Ball. Just so you know, a completely unskilled character using a Wand of Wonder has a 30% chance of getting one of Clone, Haste, Heal, or Polymorph Monster out of a Wand of Wonder, and only about a 25% chance of getting one of the big-damage effects. And even early uniques are probably going to survive one shot, so you're rolling those dice several times if you want to kill them solely with Wonder.

(Next time, try using Slow Monster on them instead; it also trivializes the fight and is much more predictable)



That "unlucky warrior" faced with a door they can't open that's gating access to the rest of the level will simply destroy the door instead of stare in befuddlement at the tiny iron lock that's barring his way. That was my point -- not that warriors shouldn't be bad at locks, but that making them bad at locks is pointless in terms of gameplay.

Never tried slow monster on uniques figured it wouldn't work...nice tip.

Do you reckon that warrior could destroy that door before that pack of orcs catch up to him?