New nightly

[Nick]

AIGGGHH!
**VERY** annoyed.

My current character just bit the dust and it was the program's fault dammit.

Welcome to the nightlies

[Derakon]

Yeah, I already reported this, and IIRC it was acknowledged so I assume it'll be fixed (it's like a three-letter change...). Sorry for your loss, mate, but the nightlies aren't exactly expected to be free from bugs, possibly game-ending ones. If they were, they wouldn't be nightlies!

Just one of the risks you take, I'm afraid.

[Chud]

Yeah, I already reported this, and IIRC it was acknowledged so I assume it'll be fixed (it's like a three-letter change...).

Out of curiosity (I'm fine with it either way, really) is the fix to make it beam again, or to make the description match the new behavior?

[Derakon]

Presumably to make the description match the behavior, since the behavior was changed as an intended nerf to TO.

Which, I note, is still quite powerful. It's just not "okay, all of you scram" powerful any more.

[PowerDiver]

Presumably to make the description match the behavior, since the behavior was changed as an intended nerf to TO.

Which, I note, is still quite powerful. It's just not "okay, all of you scram" powerful any more.

Was a radius 0 ball considered, instead of a bolt? Now you can't get a summoner if it keeps summoning. My feeling is that summoning is so out of control that anything that summons should be teleportable, immediately.

[SSK]

Was a radius 0 ball considered, instead of a bolt? Now you can't get a summoner if it keeps summoning. My feeling is that summoning is so out of control that anything that summons should be teleportable, immediately.

Yes please. Summoners and certain hounds are totally out of control. And for the record, I want beams back.

Basically one problem is with graphics I really am not recognizing what flavor of nasties is coming and the threat level--this was with ESP mind you--I had an awful confluence of circumstance:

A) I had an animal pit that contained dracolisks (I think older versions didnt consider these animals)
B) I didn't recognize the dracolisks' graphics until they were in the room border with me and I suddenly lost half my HP
C) The damned TO spell description was wrong. I have to say I knew I was in big trouble and did consider it might be wrong. I looked into possibilities for other solutions since the spell was 5% fail anyway (Paladin). I couldn't figure out something less risky (was not carrying scrolls of teleport and teleport level--this seems to be a mistake). Perhaps I should have chosen teleport level spell since I did have a kernel of doubt about that bogus spell description, but now I can't remember if my % fail was over 5% I seem to remember it may have been 25% which was clearly unacceptable...

Basically I think all the changes lead to my going back to what I remember doing all along: stay on DLevel 33 through full stat gain and try to get more speed before going below DLevel 45. I have to say the problem with some of these changes "making the game harder" can lead to it's being more boring because you have to play far more conservatively... Who wants to hang out on DLevel 33? Feh.

[Timo Pietilä]

That has more to do with teleport's behavior. For whatever reason if you teleport from point A, you are likely to land at point B, and if you teleport from point B, then you are likely to land at point A. This has been a problem for ages and is one of the reasons why teleport isn't a very good escape. So if teleporting lands you in hot water, use Teleport Level or Destruction instead, assuming you have them (and by this point, TL should be available).

High level Priest portal doesn't have that problem. It has shorter range and because of that is way more useful than teleport. In fact Ethereal Openings teleport is useful for priests only short period of time when portal doesn't have long enough range yet.

So simple fix to teleport problem is to reduce its range to about same as clvl 50 priest portal.

Problem with teleport is that when you teleport from one side of the dungeon you end up in other side of the dungeon, not to the middle of the dungeon, and teleporting back from there is forced by too long range to land you near to the starting point of the previous teleport.

[Max Stats]

High level Priest portal doesn't have that problem. It has shorter range and because of that is way more useful than teleport. In fact Ethereal Openings teleport is useful for priests only short period of time when portal doesn't have long enough range yet.

So simple fix to teleport problem is to reduce its range to about same as clvl 50 priest portal.

Problem with teleport is that when you teleport from one side of the dungeon you end up in other side of the dungeon, not to the middle of the dungeon, and teleporting back from there is forced by too long range to land you near to the starting point of the previous teleport.

How about giving it a variable range, so that sometimes it sends you halfway across the dungeon, sometimes all the way, and sometimes somewhere in between?

[buzzkill]

(seriously trying to figure out how I can have wall graphics but ASCII monsters)

There is a 32x32 ASCII graphic tileset 'out there'. You would have to configure it, make the proper assignments in the prf, but most if not all of the 'ASCII tiles' already exist. I'm not interested in pursuing it, but I can probably track it down and point you to it if you'd like to take a crack at it.

I'm unsure of the licensing (though it was obviously created for use with some rogue-like), but as long as it's for personal use i wouldn't worry too much.

Didn't somebody already do something like this?

[Magnate]

Was a radius 0 ball considered, instead of a bolt? Now you can't get a summoner if it keeps summoning. My feeling is that summoning is so out of control that anything that summons should be teleportable, immediately.

I voted for this but was overruled by the person who actually committed the change (fizzix, IIRC). A bolt is a bigger nerf, and we need to address summoning anyway IMO.

[Timo Pietilä]

How about giving it a variable range, so that sometimes it sends you halfway across the dungeon, sometimes all the way, and sometimes somewhere in between?

I think it already has variable range, just that minimum is too high.

[Nick]

There is a 32x32 ASCII graphic tileset 'out there'. You would have to configure it, make the proper assignments in the prf, but most if not all of the 'ASCII tiles' already exist. I'm not interested in pursuing it, but I can probably track it down and point you to it if you'd like to take a crack at it.

I'm unsure of the licensing (though it was obviously created for use with some rogue-like), but as long as it's for personal use i wouldn't worry too much.

Didn't somebody already do something like this?

IIRC it's in Tim Baker's OmnibandTk, and maybe also Sangband.

[myshkin]

I think it already has variable range, just that minimum is too high.

For what it's worth, the teleporting player algorithm takes a distance d as argument. For the mage Teleport spell, the argument is five times the player's level, up to a maximum of 200. The algorithm tries a number of random places such that the places' x and y coordinates are both within d of the player's current x and y coordinates. The first one that it finds between 0.5*d and d distance away as well as not in an illegal location, it uses. If it doesn't find anything, then it bumps the max up and the min down by factors of 2 each.

My first guess is that this minimum distance is sufficient but something is strange with the algorithm, but maybe a minimum of 100 is too high still. I don't see anything else obvious to explain the back-and-forth behavior.

[bulian]

Thinking about this geometrically, the spell is similar to a washer (or anulus for the uber precise). So the problem is either (i) the larger radius of the washer is too big , or (ii) the smaller radius is not small enough at high CL. Apparently some of the levels in the new nightlies have smaller footprints(?), which means this problem will exist more drastically there.

What are the map dimensions on a "typical level?" The max "radius" should be half of the longest dimension so the player has an equal probability of ending up on any square around the perimeter. Conversely, a player in a corner will end up going halfway to the other end. You can then use that to scale the min radius.

Of course, a "simpler" solution is just to scale the outer radius as a function of CL and not the inner radius, or have them scale at different rates as Myshkin said. It seems both currently scale.

I'd also suggest scaling the radius to the size of the level so it functions reasonably well on the newer, smaller levels.

[Spacebux]

Was there something terribly wrong with Teleport Self?

I never found the ping-pong (in-and-out of the same areas) to be a hassle of any sort...