Angband 4.2.4

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  • Julian
    Adept
    • Apr 2021
    • 122

    #16
    Originally posted by Djabanete
    I could see replacing Beorn. The Tolkien atmosphere is not improved by having @ slay the good guys --- those who appreciate the Tolkien atmosphere can be happy with the replacement, and those who don't care, don't care.
    I’m fine with Beorn being in the game.

    It was clear that Beorn was pretty hostile to strangers. Dude’s a bear; get into his space and you’re going to have a bad time of it.

    Comment

    • Selkie
      Swordsman
      • Aug 2020
      • 434

      #17
      Originally posted by Julian
      I’m fine with Beorn being in the game.

      It was clear that Beorn was pretty hostile to strangers. Dude’s a bear; get into his space and you’re going to have a bad time of it.
      Give a bear a break. He was ambushed by an entire party of dwarves out of the blue. Who wouldn't feel a little reticent about such an intrusion. In the end he played the perfect host and fought on the side of good in the battle of the five armies.


      I think we should include Bill Ferny of Bree. There is more than half a hint that he was a half orc. He betrays the hobbits to either Isengard or Sauron. His powers would be like a shrieker mushroom, and also minor summoning.

      Comment

      • Djabanete
        Knight
        • Apr 2007
        • 576

        #18
        It’s increasingly clear that version 4.2.5 will need a new “allow_beorn” birth option.

        Comment

        • fph
          Veteran
          • Apr 2009
          • 1030

          #19
          Originally posted by Djabanete
          Two like-for-like replacements could be Thrang the Ghoul-Bear (from "Mazirian the Magician" by Jack Vance) or The Erymanthian Boar (from the myth of the twelve labors of Hercules).
          The recent versions removed most non-Tolkien monsters, giving Angband a more consistent setting, so it would feel out of place to me to include either of those too. Maybe a few versions ago they would have been fine, but not with how the game has evolved.

          I like the Bill Ferny suggestion tho.
          --
          Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.

          Comment

          • Sphara
            Knight
            • Oct 2016
            • 504

            #20
            Beorn is a fun opponent, but I do agree the ones like Beruthiel or Denethor would be a better fit.

            Comment

            • Djabanete
              Knight
              • Apr 2007
              • 576

              #21
              Originally posted by fph
              The recent versions removed most non-Tolkien monsters, giving Angband a more consistent setting
              I see --- I haven't played Angband in quite a while, alas!

              I remember it as being very much Tolkien mashed up with the D&D Monstrous Manual and other Moria-descended things (Q's, i's, y's, w's). D&D is based on Vance's stories among other pulp fantasy, and the Erymanthian Boar seems no more out of place than Medusa the Gorgon and the various hydras (which are/were in V).

              It also sounds like there's some major new content that's not Tolkienish (Blackguard?).

              My suggestions were based on the idea that, in V, the Tolkien atmosphere has in the past been a framework around which a great many other materials are added. Also, a lot of the monsters that "feel right" have nostalgia on their side, but no Tolkien lineage (Kavlax, Boldor, Qlzqqlzuup, etc. etc.).

              Sorry for going so far into the weeds over a very minor subtopic

              Comment

              • Selkie
                Swordsman
                • Aug 2020
                • 434

                #22
                Don't apologise. Going into the weeds over minor sub topics is half of what this forum is all about

                Comment

                • Ingwe Ingweron
                  Veteran
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 2129

                  #23
                  All this assumes that @ is "good". I don't necessarily subscribe to that philosophy. @ slaughters townies and dungeon dwellers alike, both good and bad. Anyone or anything standing between @ and the Big Bosses is ripe for murder. In the end, I think @ just wants to become the newest, biggest, and baddest Dark Lord!
                  “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                  ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                  Comment

                  • Ingwe Ingweron
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2129

                    #24
                    Nick, has something changed about lore.txt? Copying monster.txt and renaming no longer gives @ monster knowledge.
                    “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                    ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                    Comment

                    • Djabanete
                      Knight
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 576

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                      All this assumes that @ is "good".
                      Not really. It's fine if you want to be an evil warrior who wants to be the next Dark Lord. What's inconsistent is that Beorn would be hanging out with a bunch of Orcs and Ringwraiths and that, while he's there, his highest priority is slaying @.

                      You could add Faramir and Galadriel as monsters, and even if you justified it by saying "@ is allowed to be evil," that dungeon still wouldn't make any sense. Beorn is a more minor character and has a more reclusive lifestyle, but lore-wise he's squarely in the "good guy fights evil" category.

                      Obviously not all monsters make the same amount of sense, some are from other legendariums, some are goofy, and some are Middle-Earth monsters that weren't around when Angband was around. "Realism" isn't the only concern, but I think most of us would agree Faramir and Galadriel shouldn't be added as monsters, so I'm not sure why Beorn should get a pass, now that we're talking about him.
                      Last edited by Djabanete; March 4, 2022, 20:36.

                      Comment

                      • Nick
                        Vanilla maintainer
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 9633

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                        Nick, has something changed about lore.txt? Copying monster.txt and renaming no longer gives @ monster knowledge.
                        Not intentionally - I'll test.
                        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                        Comment

                        • Nick
                          Vanilla maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9633

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                          Nick, has something changed about lore.txt? Copying monster.txt and renaming no longer gives @ monster knowledge.
                          Confirmed, it's broken. I think I know what's wrong, there will be a fix in due course. Also 4.2.5 confirmed
                          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                          Comment

                          • bron
                            Knight
                            • May 2008
                            • 515

                            #28
                            I note that when I throw ('v') an iron shot, the damage is doubled. Feature or bug?

                            Comment

                            • Nick
                              Vanilla maintainer
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 9633

                              #29
                              Originally posted by bron
                              I note that when I throw ('v') an iron shot, the damage is doubled. Feature or bug?
                              Feature, I think (as in it's deliberate but I'm not sure if it's a good idea).
                              One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                              In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                              Comment

                              • ewert
                                Knight
                                • Jul 2009
                                • 702

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Nick
                                Feature, I think (as in it's deliberate but I'm not sure if it's a good idea).
                                It makes the start of game quite trivial, especially if you find +x shots in weapon shop, based on my recent rogue games. I think I have had 15dmg/rnd if thrown from the get go ... I'd say revert that. Slings are there for a purpose.

                                Comment

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