Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[HugoVirtuoso]

Without light grotesques attack as well (I believe, no guarantee).

Believe it or not, without light Grotesques actually do attack and can kill characters.

[taptap]

Cool idea. Zero light at start... interesting. You could even go negative, I assume, with a shadow cloak... or, maybe that is simply zero light. I suppose it wouldn't be a huge deal if you prioritized listen on the perception tree and avoided the monsters that breathe darkness, since light is your darkness resistance. I might have to try this one out... if I can ever fire Sil up... I can't seem to pull away from the mindless farming of Path of Exile. It's a sickness...

Without light grotesques attack as well (I believe, no guarantee).

[HugoVirtuoso]

Same here for me. Even with decent Perception they can be irritatingly hard to take down due to their armour rating. If they were easier to damage as bron suggests, I think they would be improved.

Maybe, decreasing Salraukar evasion and increasing its HP would balance it a bit.

[jujuben]

Another easier start/limited growth challenge: You will not sully your hands with the discarded gear of The Enemy. You are here for one thing, and one thing only -- well, three things, actually, but I digress...

Start with a set of basic gear (no bonuses, no mithril, no egos, one item for each non-jewelry equipment slot) of your choice. You are not allowed to pick up any non-consumable item (ie: anything but food, potions, torches, oil, staves, arrows, mithril) -- all equipment improvements must be forged. You are allowed to pick up mithril items, but may not equip them - they may only be melted down for the metal.

Bonus difficulty: you are not allowed to pick up any item. Consumables may only be used from the floor. Recovered arrows (that you made yourself) are okay, but forging stat gear just got a lot chancier, there will be no mithril, staves are much less useful, and food may become an issue unless you devote valuable slots to it...

[WaveMotion]

I don't really find the Sulraukar too dangerous, but I do find them too annoying.

Same here for me. Even with decent Perception they can be irritatingly hard to take down due to their armour rating. If they were easier to damage as bron suggests, I think they would be improved.

[bron]

Who agrees with debo that Sulraukar are too dangerous, Ringraukar are to easy, and Kemenraukar are too dangerous?

I don't really find the Sulraukar too dangerous, but I do find them too annoying. They are hard to hit, which is fine, but even when I finally do hit them, I don't seems to do significant damage. I think that if their defense was reduced from 3d4 to 2d4, it would be a good change, and they wouldn't need any other mods.

I've never had any trouble with Ringrauko since they are vulnerable to fire and I nearly always take Flaming Arrows. And Ururauko usually die to a single (non-flaming) arrow by the time I run into them. They might be dangerous hand-to-hand, but I (almost) never engage them hand-to-hand. I find Kememrauko very dangerous, but some of that is due to the monsters that trail in their wake and the fact that they open up the combat area to multiple bad guys. I don't personally think they need to be changed; they represent a tough challenge. At least, until you get Sharpness.

My personal bane has generally been cat warriors. I frequently only survive the first couple of encounters by gaming the AI to be able to use archery. I like them the way they are, but have real problems handling them when they appear out-of-depth. They are native to 750 ft, but I almost always encounter them by 650 ft.

[clouded]

Sulrauko and Kemenrauko are what I'd class as situational monsters, neither are particularly dangerous by themselves but become far more dangerous with other monsters around. Kemenrauko are my favourite monster in the game, they are such good enemies. 95% of fights with them create an interesting situation, they aren't that scary by themselves but with they way they work, they always bring more monsters to the fray. Even if they had no damage on their attack, they'd still be one of the most notable monsters, all of their threat is about messing up your tactics, making unexpected situations and being very tough to kill (definitely one of the reasons sharpness is important). I guess my point is that the game needs some abnormally dangerous monsters and Kemenrauko are fantastic examples.

As I said I'd put Sulrauko in the same category, though they aren't as good at making those sorts of instances. Ringrauko are kind of weak, but I have died to them before. They should have higher accuracy at least, they have only one higher than Sulrauko despite being 100ft lower. I think it is interesting how air/earth are both high defense/low offense and ice/fire are low defense/high offense. (Though ice isn't too high right now...)

One monster trait that could be used again is slowing. Grave wights do it early and then it never comes up again. It seems fitting to me that an icy monster could slow you down, another option for it is unmourned which are frankly pathetic. For unmourned they should at least be normal speed if not quick, how about giving them extremely high perception and shrieking? A fast group monster that moves through walls and slows you while waking everything up sounds good.

[HallucinationMushroom]

I thought you drew wraiths even while not worn... facepalm! Those are really good then. But still... icky undead! I hate trance for hunger/slow/sleep. Do the icky undead come up the stairs the instant you put on the amulet?

Yeah, Sulraukar, that's what I take the keen senses for. (The 400ft, invisible demon, right?) But, I never learned their name. I call them the blinky-blinky can't see mees. Anyway, they are potentially fatal for the reasons Debo outlined. If they got a buff, they would be so tough for so early. Even with an elf and keen senses I can't see where they are maybe half the time... and those jokers are durable. It takes me a fair number of combat rounds to kill one with my melee focused characters. They might be marshmellows, but they are big marshmellows!

Those cold Raukar, pshhh. They might as well as not even be there. If they hit as hard, and as evilly, as their fire cousins, then cold resist would suddenly be in everyones possession I think. I like Kem the way they are.

My quick thoughts on balance... I'm really not so good at judging balance so don't listen to me.

[half]

how hard would it be for the player to be able to 'mark' a square with a note or something?

I could do this, but it would be fairly far down the queue as I don't see it being all that useful to most people (and I think most people wouldn't bother marking molds after a while). I think it is probably just as easy to code to have molds always shown after being discovered. I might try that at some point.

[half]

I still think Sulrauko are more dangerous than Ringrauko. It's sort of a weird ordering, IMO. Sulrauko plug up holes in hallways when you're being chased and stun you, which is horrible. Ringrauko are basically made of glass, if your evasion is worth anything you can just crush them.

But let's not get started on kemenrauko...

An interesting and easily actionable idea. Who agrees with debo that Sulraukar are too dangerous, Ringraukar are to easy, and Kemenraukar are too dangerous? I think I do.

Sulraukar have invisibility and are meant to be more interesting than dangerous. The difficulty to hit them due to invisibility combined with the critical resistance probably makes them a bit too robust, so I could lower their health by quite a lot.

Kemenraukar are also quite interesting already without being super tough. The fact that you often have to face them at the same time as something else already makes them very difficult. We are obviously going for a powerful memorable attack (a bit like giants and clearly a bit like Morgoth), but could tone down their accuracy or something.

Ringraukar are indeed not that tough. They do kill your potions, which makes them a bit alarming, but I don't recall getting into any real trouble with them. I'm ok with them being brittle, but perhaps they need to do a bit more damage?

Edit: I really want to emphasize how awesome haunted dreams amulets are as an item. I love them so frickin much. That 'attracts wraiths to your level' effect is the most badass thing ever.

Thanks! We spent a while on these new curses and were quite pleased with how this one works on the amulets and on the Sword of Saithnar.

[wobbly]

Have I missed anything? Do the people who get most annoyed by violet molds always buy keen senses and then follow this advice? Are they ruined by typos?

I take it more for nasty surprises in general. Early game walking down a corridor & finding a sword spider right next to me is worse then a violet mold if I haven't built for melee. I tend to id by use anyways & aim for listen rather then loremaster.

[Psi]

Man, I hate those amulets... I don't see how you guys mitigate the danger from the undead!

I just carry one as a swap until I have SeeInv or high enough perception. They only draw wraiths when worn, so I stick it on when I suspect something invisible is around and then take it off again once it is dealt with.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Man, I hate those amulets... I don't see how you guys mitigate the danger from the undead!

[debo]

I get keen senses chiefly for those first Raukar. Other than boosting will by a little bit, I don't do anything specifically for molds.

I felt this was a lot more necessary before haunted dreams -- it's pretty common to find those at about the same level as sulrauko now, which was a really nice touch.

I still think Sulrauko are more dangerous than Ringrauko. It's sort of a weird ordering, IMO. Sulrauko plug up holes in hallways when you're being chased and stun you, which is horrible. Ringrauko are basically made of glass, if your evasion is worth anything you can just crush them.

But let's not get started on kemenrauko...

Edit: I really want to emphasize how awesome haunted dreams amulets are as an item. I love them so frickin much. That 'attracts wraiths to your level' effect is the most badass thing ever.

[debo]

I dunno if I'm lucky or what, but I miskey constantly and move diagonally as much as possible, and I lose con to violet molds about 1 in 4 games max. And most games you can find a !Con reasonably early -- so I opt to save the keen senses xp and always take loremaster.

I dunno, I think violet molds are OK. Even with like 3 will, you can avoid the stat drain reasonably often even if you miskey. The only time it makes me rage is when I've seen a mold, leave, and then come back and hit it later because I forgot it was there.

I mentioned this in a recent video -- how hard would it be for the player to be able to 'mark' a square with a note or something? So you could, say, highlight the square you want, and then if you use the 'L' command you can go back and find the marker? That would scale to a lot of different uses, I think -- e.g. artefacts I want to go back and get, molds I've sighted, stairs I've found in the event that a mewlip rings its bell (I guess that's sort of cheap, but whatever...