Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[half]

Concept "Fencer"

One could also try two-weaponing with your current best shortsword in your main hand and your old one in your off-hand (since the -3 Str is irrelevant). My guess is that Subtlety is better though. Does anyone have some kind of fight simulator for Sil?

1d6 daggers are another possibility, but I'm pretty sure < 1lb short swords are always going to be better.

Also note that you will really want cruel blow.

[taptap]

Concept "Fencer"

Idea: killing Morgoth subtly with negative or 0 strength with no need to buff up strength for rapid attack. I am sure you can kill Morgoth when you add concentration, slaying and maybe song of sharpness for overkill - I don't know how to survive until then. You could start with some ridiculous stat distribution such as 0/5/3/5.

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A 0.9 lb shortsword has difficulty 7.

A 0.9 lb shortsword with +2 evasion has difficulty 12.
(Possible at start with enchantment?)

A 0.9 lb shortsword of Gondolin has difficulty 17.
(Drains 2 strength when simulated via artifice, but that wouldn't matter much.)

A 0.9 lb shortsword with +2 evasion and rapid attack has difficulty 22.

A sharp 0.9 lb shortsword has difficulty 27.
(This should be sufficient.)

A sharp 0.9 lb shortsword with +2 evasion has difficulty 32.

Reducing weight to 0.8 lb increases difficulty by 2.

[taptap]

I'd like to pose a question. If you absolutely had to win the game, upon risk of death, lets say, what are some things that you would do differently to ensure victory?

I would play a Doriath singer. I would swap out light sources in lighted rooms. I would search for traps in vaults before moving. I would not take risks, i.e. fights.

[taptap]

I would love to play Sil with a party of 3 chars - not heroes but commoners (say 4 flexible stat pts. at start instead of 13 pts.) and fixed 10k XP and no learning and see how far I can go. (The dungeon isn't really designed for having more than one unit, but still.)

[taptap]

I've just double checked this and darkness is not relevant to the line of sight check. They still have LOS on you if you are in darkness (and you have LOS on them even if you can't see them). This is because most monsters are able to see in the dark. Technically @s and Gs should need you to be lit too. I might add that in, but it is not there at the moment. I'm impressed you survived as well as you did, because this wasn't helping you!

Hahaha. I was hallucinating game mechanics again. @s and Gs aren't exactly high perception enemies so the benefit would be very limited. (Maybe you can give a negative modifier to stealth for too much light in future.)

The early listen helped a lot in avoiding things especially against the deadliest enemy of pacifists - crebains and bats As usual I didn't post the countless amount of chars sacrificed early in the game. There were a few. Personally I find Doriath easiest and Finarfin second easiest for pure stealth builds - no light forced me to take listen almost from start when I would have taken more stealth otherwise.

[half]

(disguise halves modifiers when in line of sight, darkness removes them completely!)

I've just double checked this and darkness is not relevant to the line of sight check. They still have LOS on you if you are in darkness (and you have LOS on them even if you can't see them). This is because most monsters are able to see in the dark. Technically @s and Gs should need you to be lit too. I might add that in, but it is not there at the moment. I'm impressed you survived as well as you did, because this wasn't helping you!

[taptap]

Interesting idea. Note though that not all enemies fear light (generally the list is something like orcs, trolls, undead and darkness-creating monsters).

Guess you would need Song of Elbereth (easterlings, rauko) and/or Song of Mastery (wolves, trolls) as well then.

I realized recently that vampires don't count as undead for weapons of final rest - if I am not mistaken completely - do they for light?

P.S. Rage + no-light has some interesting effect. You completely lose your map awareness (as you don't see anything directly) even the wall next to you.

[Scatha]

Interesting idea. Note though that not all enemies fear light (generally the list is something like orcs, trolls, undead and darkness-creating monsters).

[taptap]

My no-light challenge character (Finarfin) got to 650 ft. there I got jumped by newly spawned cats in a corridor and died. (Natardo on the ladder.) However, the feel until then was that no-light might be less of a challenge than I first thought. It may in fact be a viable option for pacifists in general to remove lightsources (or swap them in and out) as soon as they get their ears tuned (Listen), darkness has huge benefits for stealth (disguise halves modifiers when in line of sight, darkness removes them completely!). Long turning corridors, however, can be even more of a deathtrap than for regular pacifists. I had no darkness items with this character, so couldn't produce darkness - there are a lot of items that have a serious downside with other builds (shadow cloaks, sword of shadows) that would really "shine" with this build.

I still wonder about grotesques and no-light. Maybe if you add Song of Mastery that would last you at least until the next stair?

In the opposite direction:

Has anyone tried to maximize the moral effects of light by shining very bright as a character combined maybe with majesty? (4 on lightsource, 2 on the hands, 1 on amulet, 1 on crown, 1 on armour (?) - are there shining cloaks? boots? gloves? add a floor lamp for good measure), add song of trees and inner light to the mix (maybe elbereth for the tough ones) and mastery for those who don't want to flee. I wish you could add more than 1 light to an artefact, though. Aim would be to make a stealthless yet pacifist char

[debo]

Oh, I wasn't aware of the +3. That's great when you combine flanking with polearms and build for high evasion.

Never mind, it got nerfed quite hard since the last time I ever saw it. Just checked the 1.1.1. artefact file, it's (-1,2d9) [+2] now. The conversion from halberds -> glaives seems to have left this one in the dust

[+2] is still OK but not as clearly OP anymore It's also same depth and rarity as Sirion and I'd have to say that Sirion is just all-around better unless you've already somehow bought both the abilities it comes with...

[taptap]

Celebrist also gives +1 Dex (and free action!), and is (+0,2d10) [+3] (!)

It's like someone stuck the shortsword of galadriel at the end of a very heavy pole!

Oh, I wasn't aware of the +3. That's great when you combine flanking with polearms and build for high evasion.

[debo]

Maybe he means Gaurin, with sharpness.

Celebrist also gives +1 Dex (and free action!), and is (+0,2d10) [+3] (!)

It's like someone stuck the shortsword of galadriel at the end of a very heavy pole!

[Philip]

Maybe he means Gaurin, with sharpness.

[taptap]

Celebrist and Melkor are pretty damned good too.

Isn't Celebrist the CON-1 glaive?

[half]

Yes, I know. It would be horrible. There are, however, modifiers when you are in LoS of your opponents (and vanishing depends on being out of sight afaik) so darkness has some benefits for stealth. Searching is quite neat as well, 9 tiles in one turn (I might even be able to find some things and stairs in not completely horrible turncount ). 400ft. now and everything is fine so far (8 pts. in stealth and perception w/ the 4 obvious abilities, 2 in will for molds).

There are some other neat benefits too. @s and Gs need light to see (which is why they carry light), so they get their attack rolls halved if you are in darkness (archers!) and get their evasion rolls halved too (mainly relevant if you are an archer, but also if you are a badass shadow-cloaked, net darkness producer in melee).