Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[debo]

There should be a booby prize for whoever occupies the bottom-most position of the ladder

[bron]

Scatha's no magic challenge

I started a character just for yucks, and surprised myself by not dying for quite awhile.
(http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14018).
I found it incredibly frustrating to find equipment that I couldn't use because it had a {special} tag. Like the first 3 lanterns I found. I was thinking about trying a modified version of this challenge: modify the source to remove the {special} attribute(s) from generated items. So e.g. a (-1,3d6) Greatsword of Hador's House would get generated, but then be changed into a normal (-1,3d6) Greatsword. I'd also want to stop generation of jewelry and staffs, and instead generate something else.

This would make the challenge easier, because more good equipment would get generated, and more useable equipment (e.g. the rings, amulets, and staves would get replaced by something else that you might be able to use, like maybe potions). What do people think? This would not quite be the same as the original challenge, but it would still be "no-magic".

[Psi]

I was thinking about trying a modified version of this challenge: modify the source to remove the {special} attribute(s) from generated items. So e.g. a (-1,3d6) Greatsword of Hador's House would get generated, but then be changed into a normal (-1,3d6) Greatsword.

A minor correction is that Hador's House adds a side, so it would be 3d5 without {special}.

Perhaps the no-magic challenge could be added to the core game rather than as a mod.

[half]

Perhaps the no-magic challenge could be added to the core game rather than as a mod.

If enough people want it, we could do that.

For now, if you are hacking the source, then making objects all fail their chance to become special is a good move (there are separate chances for fine and special).

[bron]

For now, if you are hacking the source, then making objects all fail their chance to become special is a good move (there are separate chances for fine and special).

Another advantage to not generating the items is that it would allow removing the restiction on the Lore-Master skill. At least, I assume that the reaon for restricting Lore-Mastery is that you get a bunch of exp. for identifying all the various magic items by sight, even if you don't use them. If all you have are potions and herbs, it seems a perfectly reasonable (non-magic) thing to be able to identify those. This makes only Flaming Arrows and Inner Light be suspect abilities.

[Patashu]

If enough people want it, we could do that.

I'm picturing something like the Angels series of challenges in DoomRL - where the core gameplay is changed OR you're forbidden from doing something by the game, and you get kudos for winning under it.

You could then move the hard mode options (ironman, no connecting stairs, no artifacts) to be 'Angels' or parts of Angels to make people think about choosing them.

[T-Mick]

I just learned that every point of strength adds a side to your unarmed attack. Anyone up for an unarmed challenge?

[HallucinationMushroom]

Punching demons in the face?! Badass. I had a really strong guy one time and I thought, you know what, it would be awesome if I just reached down and yanked the silmaril out of the crown with my bare hands. It didn't let me even try... you gotta have a weapon for that at least.

I punched my way to the first forge not long ago to see how feasible clouded's use-only-what-you-forge challenge was... I didn't have much difficulty, but I did have to lead the green centipede out of the forge room. I haven't played him since.

[Psi]

I don't suppose subtlety works when you are not wielding a weapon?

[T-Mick]

Power, finesse, charge, and assassination do. Subtlety seems to work also.

EDIT: Momentum, however, has no effect.

[Starhawk]

What is the weapon weight on your fist? Is it stupidly easy to crit? A Cruel Blow ninja might be amusing.

[HallucinationMushroom]

I just tried this a few times. Ouch! I suppose if you played a pacifist, it wouldn't matter... or, maybe a super stealth assassin might be able to kill something with enough cruel blows? I'm not even remotely close to being this masochistic. Getting to the first forge might be possible, but not being able to kill a green centipede... wow.

[WaveMotion]

I suspect that for any player the greatest challenge would be the repeated "(You are fighting with your bare hands.)" messages.

[debo]

What is the weapon weight on your fist? Is it stupidly easy to crit? A Cruel Blow ninja might be amusing.

The answer to this seems to be "no" -- I came out of Sil retirement for 5 mins to test this. I just hit with a melee - evasion difference of 9 and didn't score a critical, which means my "weapon weight" is at least two pounds? I might go sourcedive to see how this works...

[debo]

From cmd1.c in "py_attack_aux":

	// fighting with fists is equivalent to a 4 lb weapon for the purpose of criticals
	weapon_weight = o_ptr->weight ? o_ptr->weight : 40;

So there you go. 4lbs is kind of a huge barrier to surmount, that's like swinging a broken sword that weighs as much as a war hammer