memorable randarts

[Estie]

Ah, flew right over me.

[PowerDiver]

I was expressing my disappointment of this unusual find and the situation that I never want to wear purely AC over other magical properties like elvenkind. Judging by ladder dumps, this is an opinion shared by everyone. It is an old topic and has come up many times in the past. There have been many suggestions, discussions and debates, sometimes heated, because the game is close to our hearts. Is this forum no longer a place for that kind of exchange ?

The problem is that breaths can instakill in 1 round, and melee usually cannot. Also, some breaths have side effects that might lead to instakill [stun] or weaken you for the rest of the game [disenchant].This is a game of worst case, at least for beginners and intermediates. If you want AC to matter, the loop of experimentation shoud be

while (ac does not matter enough)
reduce all resistable damage by 25%
increase all melee damage by 25%
repeat

I don't see the point, but that kind of approach is the only way I believe the issue can be addressed.

Also, every time you add another monster like a wyrm of annihilation you exacerbate the pointlessness of ac. I think step 0 should be to remove the recent dangerous deep monster additions who have breath attacks before you even start the loop.

[Pete Mack]

AC doesn't mean that much in the lategame, true. Early on, OoD mithril chain or dragon mail can make a huge difference. And not just from the breath.

[Estie]

Its a combination of things: an example of a game where AC matters would be Nethack.
1. The combat system is different.
2. The cost to disengage from melee is substantially higher.
3. There are fewer protective things AC has to compete with.

Of these, the killer is 2.; you can remove phase door, but it wouldnt be Angband anymore.

[fruviad]

A nice end-game find:

the Mace of Narmedin (5d4) (+24,+14) [+11] <+4, +5, +6, +1, +3>
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4650 feet (level 93)

+4 strength.
+5 intelligence.
+6 wisdom.
+1 dexterity.
+3 constitution.
+3 speed.
+1 light.
Slays undead (powerfully), dragons (powerfully), demons (powerfully), giants, trolls, orcs, animals, evil creatures.
Branded with weak lightning, poison.
Provides immunity to cold.
Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, light, dark, sound, shards.
Provides protection from fear, blindness.
Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
Sustains strength.
Slows your metabolism. Grants the ability to see invisible things. Prevents paralysis. Aggravates creatures nearby.

Combat info:
4.0 blows/round.
Average damage/round: 442.3 vs undead, dragons, and demons, 332.7vs giants, trolls, orcs, and creatures not resistant to poison,
277.9 vs evil creatures, creatures not resistant to lightning, and animals, and 223.1 vs. others.

My mage had it equipped, so the melee bonuses were never used.

[Estie]

A couple months ago I spotted a ridiculous MoD in the randart set of one of my toons. I started playing with that set; many deceased @s who spent ages on dlvl 100 later I finally found it. To give an idea of how hard it is to find this weapon, all of my ~5 toons had The One long before they died.


The weapon wielded:

a) the Mace of Disruption 'Celdach' (16d8) (+17,+28) <+2, +3>
Conjured forth by magic at 5000 feet (level 100)

+2 intelligence.
+3 wisdom.
+3 constitution.
+2 extra blows.
Slays dragons (powerfully), demons (powerfully), undead.
Branded with weak fire.
Provides resistance to Acid, Poison, Light, Dark, Nether.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by Acid, Fire.
Speeds regeneration. Grants the ability to see invisible things.
Blessed by the gods (combat bonuses for holy casters).

Combat info:
7.0 blows/round.
This weapon may benefit from one or more off-weapon brands or
slays.
Average damage/round: 4867.8 vs dragons and demons, 3274.6 vs
undead, 2478.7 vs evil creatures and creatures not resistant to
fire, and 1682.1 vs. others.

The weapon in the file:

the Mace of Disruption 'Celdach' (16d8) (+17,+28) <+2, +3>
----------------------------------------------------------
A giant's weapon, enchanted with shattering power that breaks bones, bodies,
and spirit.

+2 intelligence.
+3 wisdom.
+3 constitution.
+2 extra blows.
Slays dragons (powerfully), demons (powerfully), undead.
Branded with weak fire.
Provides resistance to Acid, Poison, Light, Dark, Nether.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by Acid, Fire.
Speeds regeneration. Grants the ability to see invisible things. Blessed by
the gods (combat bonuses for holy casters).

Min Level 100, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 1056, 40.0 lbs


The dump:

https://angband.live/ladder/ladder-show.php?id=25910

[PowerWyrm]

Power 1056 and it doesn't even aggravate... I thought there was a test for high power randarts. Is this broken?

[Estie]

Power 1k weapons exist fairly often, however normally they are something like a whip 4d3 with a long list of slays and resists. While they may be good endgame weapons even so, its not "broken" because a) chances are there is some power 300 weapon thats better and b) you never find them. The thing thats "broken" is the power function; I suspect it adds where it should multiply, that is high base damage times extra blows.
This thing should be power value 10k.

[Voentorg]

The Battle Axe “Gunion” certainly packs a punch with its impressive array of properties!
Overall, the Battle Axe “Gunion” is a formidable weapon, especially against dragons, demons, and undead. The combination of slays and brands makes it versatile in various situations. Plus, the additional resistances and effects provide excellent utility.

[PowerWyrm]

Power 1k weapons exist fairly often, however normally they are something like a whip 4d3 with a long list of slays and resists. While they may be good endgame weapons even so, its not "broken" because a) chances are there is some power 300 weapon thats better and b) you never find them. The thing thats "broken" is the power function; I suspect it adds where it should multiply, that is high base damage times extra blows.
This thing should be power value 10k.

Agreed. Randart weapons that are outright better than Grond and don't even aggravate should not happen. This totally imbalances the game. Unless we add a modifier that allows casting speed reduction to be able to cast multiple spells per round. Being able to do 2500 vs evil in melee and only 400 with spells makes no sense...

[Sky]

A couple months ago I spotted a ridiculous MoD in the randart set of one of my toons. I started playing with that set; many deceased @s who spent ages on dlvl 100 later I finally found it. To give an idea of how hard it is to find this weapon, all of my ~5 toons had The One long before they died.


The weapon wielded:

a) the Mace of Disruption 'Celdach' (16d8) (+17,+28) <+2, +3>
Conjured forth by magic at 5000 feet (level 100)

+2 intelligence.
+3 wisdom.
+3 constitution.
+2 extra blows.
Slays dragons (powerfully), demons (powerfully), undead.
Branded with weak fire.
Provides resistance to Acid, Poison, Light, Dark, Nether.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by Acid, Fire.
Speeds regeneration. Grants the ability to see invisible things.
Blessed by the gods (combat bonuses for holy casters).

Combat info:
7.0 blows/round.
This weapon may benefit from one or more off-weapon brands or
slays.
Average damage/round: 4867.8 vs dragons and demons, 3274.6 vs
undead, 2478.7 vs evil creatures and creatures not resistant to
fire, and 1682.1 vs. others.

The weapon in the file:

the Mace of Disruption 'Celdach' (16d8) (+17,+28) <+2, +3>
----------------------------------------------------------
A giant's weapon, enchanted with shattering power that breaks bones, bodies,
and spirit.

+2 intelligence.
+3 wisdom.
+3 constitution.
+2 extra blows.
Slays dragons (powerfully), demons (powerfully), undead.
Branded with weak fire.
Provides resistance to Acid, Poison, Light, Dark, Nether.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by Acid, Fire.
Speeds regeneration. Grants the ability to see invisible things. Blessed by
the gods (combat bonuses for holy casters).

Min Level 100, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, Power 1056, 40.0 lbs


The dump:

https://angband.live/ladder/ladder-show.php?id=25910

i dont normally say this, but '

WHAT THE FUCK

[backwardsEric]

Power 1056 and it doesn't even aggravate... I thought there was a test for high power randarts. Is this broken?

According to the commit history, there was a change 16 years ago to limit aggravation to random artifacts that are powerful enough (originally that was if the target power was greater than 90; at some point it was changed to be if the target power was greater than AGGR_POWER which is 300). That change did not require aggravation on those artifacts: whether or not aggravation is added is conditioned by the frequency of aggravation in the standard artifact set. For aggravation and some of the other stuff that can be added in try_supercharge(), the current handling of the frequencies is suspect (see https://github.com/angband/angband/issues/5984 ), but the change proposed in that issue would only boost the chance of getting aggravation in try_supercharge() from 8/139 to 13/139 for a weapon with a target power greater than 300 (that change would also boost the chance the weapon would get aggravation in add_ability()).

[Nick]

If anyone wants to try and improve the randart generator, please feel free.

[Estie]

Kobold ranger lvl 32 (drank an early !exp) cleared a minor vault on dlvl 38 to find this:

b) the Heavy Crossbow 'Nared' (x7) (+12,+14) &lt;+3&gt; (charging) {@A1}
Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1900 feet (level 38)

+3 shooting speed.
+3 shooting power.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.

When activated, it lights up the surrounding area and creates a
ball of weak light with radius 3, centred on and hitting the
player, with full intensity to radius 3, dealing 2d15 damage at
the centre, which your device skill increases by 40% for an
average of 22.4 damage.
Takes 33 to 36 turns to recharge.
Your chance of success is 96.8%

With my best bolts (from the same vault) that would be:

3) 21 Mithril Bolts of Flame (3d5) (+15,+14)
Branded with fire.
Cannot be harmed by acid.

Combat info:
When fired, hits targets up to 200 feet away.
Average damage/round: 876.9 vs creatures not resistant to fire and
613.9 vs. others.
20% chance of breaking upon contact.

[Estie]

a) the Mace of Disruption of Elurossa (5d8) (+8,+22) <+3, +1>
Dropped by Saruman of Many Colours at 3600 feet (level 72)

+3 wisdom.
+1 light.
Slays undead (powerfully), demons (powerfully), giants, orcs, evil
creatures.
Provides immunity to acid, lightning, cold.
Provides resistance to nexus.
Provides protection from fear.
Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
Grants the ability to see invisible things. Sustains your life
force.

Combat info:
5.0 blows/round.
This weapon may benefit from one or more off-weapon brands or
slays.
Average damage/round: 965.8 vs undead and demons, 684.9 vs giants,
orcs, and creatures not resistant to lightning, 544.5 vs evil
creatures, and 404 vs. others.

My rogue found this and with FI from a helmet enjoyed elemental immunity. I was looking forward to killing Ancalagon but the sly drake stayed in hiding. Even though I found a sword that did more lightning damage, I never ended up using it because the mace was just too convenient. Dangerous monsters were dealt with using either the xbow or wands.