My first (vanilla) winner ever in 30+ years playing (off-and-on)

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  • vnat
    Rookie
    • Nov 2008
    • 3

    My first (vanilla) winner ever in 30+ years playing (off-and-on)

    Well, I finally did it, my first vanilla winner. i hadn't played in... probably well over a decade, so the changes were a heck of a sight to see (and IMO, largely improvements):





    My first restarted character of any significance was a Dunadan ranger. I found Ringil for the first time ever, and Cubragol for the first time ever -- both in the same game! Easy win? No, I kinda... well, honestly the character stopped being fun for me at around 3500'. I lost the character dump to history but the various hounds and Maia I was running into down there ended up in that character being miserable to play and I... well, kinda said "f-it" and basically played stupidly and let myself get killed.

    Honestly, the problem was I had been playing the ranger too much like a Warrior, just making use of the "quality of life" spells like Mapping and Stone to mud. And, if I'm gonna play that way, might as well just be a warrior and get all the benefits of it.

    And so I did. I slow-balled my ranger pretty severely, going through each level multiple times before going down to the next. The Warrior i played more aggressively, making frequent use of Deep Descent until I got down to 2500 feet, hanging out at depth ranges for a while (particularly to stat-max at about 1650-1900'). From about 2500-4200 or so was more of a steady decline -- clearing most levels but absolutely being willing to "nope" out of there if it got hairy. From about 4200 downward I shifted mindset to pure unique-hunting. Honestly after the late 3000s the levels themselves didn't get much harder, except in that more dangerous uniques came up (and I made *sure* to kill them, not wanting Sauron or Morgy to summon them).

    Some bits of good luck:
    • The Q...whatever Emperor Quylthulg dude showed up in a crevice in a corridor, so I was fairly easily able to get right up to him while staying out his LOS until I was right up against him, at which point I could just bash him dead.
    • The War Hammer of Aule is a hell of a weapon.
    • At some point I escaped with... 2 out of 1202 HP . One fewer hitpoint and the difference between a Life potion and *Healing* potion would have mattered
    • Twice I tried to get miserly and use a rod of Healing against Morgy. Both failed, and the luck is I didn't die (I had 700+ HP left for both attempts). I shouldn't have been so miserly though.

    Things I like about new angband:
    • Rune system is way better than the old system of having to ID every freaking thing, and made a Warrior's life a lot more playable IMO.
    • Speed system is way better in that I'm not stuck waiting around for +10 speed to come from one item. In the few characters I've had it was pretty easy to cobble together +10 or so from a few items that gave +3 or so speed.
    • A lot fewer useless items. I mean, there was stuff that was useless to my particular character but not a whole lot in the game where I was ok "ok this just shouldn't exist".
    • AC actually started mattering to me late game, to the point where I was sacrificing resists and even a small amount of speed for it. I had a kit with about 150 AC, +26 or so base speed, and every resist (except stunning), yet found that I was starting to get shredded in melee. Giving up Shards + 2-3 speed points for about 70+ extra AC proved to be a huge deal for me.
      • Exception: throwing items. I'm not sure how throwing weapons -- except at the *extreme* high end -- would be worth the inventory slot for me if they're not going in the quiver.

    Play tip that was probably true even in old Angband but I'd forgotten about:
    • ESP + Mapping (better yet, Arkenstone) covers a *lot* of sins. Once I got Thranduil (later, Nenya) I probably should have optimized more for swappability and less to try to fix on one set of equipment that tried to handle everything by itself. I did a bit of this by carrying both Amulet of Weaponmastery and Sustenance, using the former most of the time and swapping to the latter for dexterity reducers, but I could have done this more aggressively, I think.

    Random thoughts on inventory management:
    • I saved Rune of Protection scrolls for use against Morgy, ended up not needing them.
    • Same with Life potions. I must have used one along the way (I had 10 at some point) but can't remember when. I don't *think* I used them against Morgy, just using *Healing* ones instead.
    Well, anyway, thoughts from a guy that was playing long long ago.

  • bboxman
    Rookie
    • Aug 2025
    • 10

    #2
    Congrats! I too think throwing is totally useless beyond pebble/iron shot flinging before you have an enchanted sling at very low levels. Throwables break, take up inventory slots, and are underwhelming in terms of damage.

    Comment

    • Nick
      Vanilla maintainer
      • Apr 2007
      • 9396

      #3
      Congrats. I agree, throwing needs work, but throwables do I believe go in the quiver.
      One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
      In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

      Comment

      • PowerDiver
        Prophet
        • Mar 2008
        • 2813

        #4
        Currently the only throwables that go in the quiver are ammo.

        Comment

        • bboxman
          Rookie
          • Aug 2025
          • 10

          #5
          Originally posted by Nick
          Congrats. I agree, throwing needs work, but throwables do I believe go in the quiver.
          I just tested it now in 4.2.6 - throwables (except for sling ammo) don't got in the quiver. Bought a dagger, and it takes an inventory slot -



          [Character Inventory]

          ....
          w) a Dagger (1d4) (+0,+0)
          Bought from a store

          Combat info:
          5.0 blows/round.
          Average damage/round: 95.5.
          Average thrown damage: 8.

          Comment

          • Nick
            Vanilla maintainer
            • Apr 2007
            • 9396

            #6
            OK, it works by inscriptions. If you inscribe that dagger @v0 it will go into slot 0 in your quiver. See the manual for more info.

            Clearly I've forgotten everything I ever knew
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

            Comment

            • bboxman
              Rookie
              • Aug 2025
              • 10

              #7
              Originally posted by Nick
              OK, it works by inscriptions. If you inscribe that dagger @v0 it will go into slot 0 in your quiver. See the manual for more info.

              Clearly I've forgotten everything I ever knew
              Thanks! Though I still think most throwables are underwhelming vs. good launcher+ammo (for a given depth). Weight is also an issue (particularly in the early game).

              Comment

              • PowerDiver
                Prophet
                • Mar 2008
                • 2813

                #8
                IMO there should be a separate tval for throwing items. Throwing knives do not resemble daggers, throwing spears are not slashing spears, etc. This would also facilitate specialized egos for throwing weapons, and object generation for multiple items that would go into the same slot.

                Comment

                • vnat
                  Rookie
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 3

                  #9
                  That's really good to know about throwing weapons. Most throwing weapons didn't do a whole lot, but I can think of a few artifacts I found (like the daggers) that would've been worth keeping around in the quiver.

                  Comment

                  • PowerDiver
                    Prophet
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 2813

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Nick
                    OK, it works by inscriptions. If you inscribe that dagger @v0 it will go into slot 0 in your quiver. See the manual for more info.
                    So my response was wrong yet again. Geez.

                    Googling turned up this old post.

                    Comment

                    • PowerDiver
                      Prophet
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 2813

                      #11
                      Originally posted by vnat
                      [*]ESP + Mapping (better yet, Arkenstone) covers a *lot* of sins. Once I got Thranduil (later, Nenya) I probably should have optimized more for swappability and less to try to fix on one set of equipment that tried to handle everything by itself. I did a bit of this by carrying both Amulet of Weaponmastery and Sustenance, using the former most of the time and swapping to the latter for dexterity reducers, but I could have done this more aggressively, I think.
                      All of your stats are now restored on level up, so if you are in a part of the game where you level a lot you don't need to obsess about stat drainers. Also, the grape jelly trick may be no more, but you can get your exp drained to lose a level and then use restore life levels to re-level and restore your stats as a side effect.

                      Comment

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