[Announce] PosChengband 1.0.0

[Arjen]

Innate attacks? OK, just map monster blow info. This will require new code, but should not be hard. Some monsters should not offer innate attacks, though. For example, 'p' type monsters.

Monks/Mystics?

As for possessing uniques: We'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think I will make it so uniques no longer automatically drop corpses unless they are wanted.

That could work well.

[chris]

Powers aren't the issue. Hengband already has support for these via the Imitator and Blue Mage classes (though I'm not happy with the way the code is written). Essentially, all you need is a mapping from monster race flags to code that is already written, and this is easy to do.

Ditto with resistances and things like free action. Speed bonus could be calculated from already existing r_info data (Something like anything up to +5 is free and the balance is prorata level).

Body types require more work, but I was thinking of just using the display character for this (e.g. 'Z' maps to hound body types, etc). This might be a lot of work, but then again, perhaps not. Many monster types will just use the default body type.

Innate attacks? OK, just map monster blow info. This will require new code, but should not be hard. Some monsters should not offer innate attacks, though. For example, 'p' type monsters.

So all of that can be done without any r_info changes.

However, I'd really like the current body to also affect player stats and skills. And for this, alas, I think I actually will roll thru r_info to add data, though 0 defaults might be OK for many monsters. (Example: Possessing a Greater Titan should give massive bonus to Str, penalty to Dex, huge increase in melee skill, but terrible stealth).

As for possessing uniques: We'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think I will make it so uniques no longer automatically drop corpses unless they are wanted.

[DaviddesJ]

My only comment at this point is that the player's abilities and powers and attacks will need to correspond strongly to what is in the monster bestiary (e.g. If monster has Mana Storm, then so do you, perhaps with level restrictions, fail rates, different damage calc, etc).

Unlike Posband, I lack the energy to roll thru all 1128 monster entries in r_info to make one class work

Well, I wouldn't try coding them one at a time. You would need rules for translating monster abilities into player abilities. That at least scales as the number of abilities, rather than as the number of monsters. You could implement the translation either within the game engine, or run it offline and generate a separate file of "translated player abilities" to be used by the game.

The biggest problem with such a scheme is that people are going to figure out which monsters happen to translate into the most powerful players, and just focus on those. It becomes less interesting to be able to take on different forms if in practice you just focus on a specific one or two.

[Arjen]

Yeah, it might be a *lot* of work as you have to reform every monster into a monster able to be possessed.

In my opinion, being able to posses uniques is quickly overpowered. They are strong to annoy the player, not to make him superhuman strong. Just imagine you being Zeus, the Unicorn, Morgoth, the Variant Maintainer. Pure insanity.

So far my help, I don't know how to code it.

[chris]

Ok, I don't know how I should say this to make myself clear...


MAKE IT HAPPEN!

<-Fan of possessing anything and playing monster classes.

I really do like the possessing system TOME has, finding corpses and take it over, but poschengband had a major difference as uniques have a 100% corpsedrop.

But also the idea behind TOMEnet is nice, kill x amount of monsters and gain the ability to polymorph into that form. This eliminates all uniques and high level monster forms are hard to get as you need to kill x monsters where x=monsterlvl. So for serious forms you need 70 kills Maybe it's a bit too much for solo variant with an insane amount of different monsters.

*edit*
The reason the possessor of posband werent a big succes was the pretty hard start you had. The possessor is just so extremely weak, you have trouble killing the weakest of monsters so you can get another weak body. Yeeks were stronger in posband than a possessor. I just gave up on them.

Well, that's clear enough

I really haven't played much of any variant with a Possessor class, so I'm really going to need help with making it balanced/fun.

My only comment at this point is that the player's abilities and powers and attacks will need to correspond strongly to what is in the monster bestiary (e.g. If monster has Mana Storm, then so do you, perhaps with level restrictions, fail rates, different damage calc, etc).

Unlike Posband, I lack the energy to roll thru all 1128 monster entries in r_info to make one class work

[Arjen]

As for The Possessor, would players be interested in that? Judging from the characters posted to the ladder, the possessor was not very popular. In fact, I don't see any dumps on the Posband ladder, though I might be missing them if the class does not list as Possessor.

Ok, I don't know how I should say this to make myself clear...


MAKE IT HAPPEN!

<-Fan of possessing anything and playing monster classes.

I really do like the possessing system TOME has, finding corpses and take it over, but poschengband had a major difference as uniques have a 100% corpsedrop.

But also the idea behind TOMEnet is nice, kill x amount of monsters and gain the ability to polymorph into that form. This eliminates all uniques and high level monster forms are hard to get as you need to kill x monsters where x=monsterlvl. So for serious forms you need 70 kills Maybe it's a bit too much for solo variant with an insane amount of different monsters.

*edit*
The reason the possessor of posband werent a big succes was the pretty hard start you had. The possessor is just so extremely weak, you have trouble killing the weakest of monsters so you can get another weak body. Yeeks were stronger in posband than a possessor. I just gave up on them.

[chris]

Various people have tried to revive Posband, and I have played with the idea of including Pos-style monster races in FA. Having now played PosCheng a bit for the competition, I am really, really glad that none of the other attempts succeeded, because I can't imagine it being done better than this.

The main things I see as missing from the original Pos are

1. the massive slowdown when teams of oppositely aligned monsters were fighting each other on your level;
2. the consequent piles of free loot;
3. the frequent, hilarious bugs and
4. the Possessor class

I would like to see number 4 if you ever get the time and inclination to implement it; losing the others is an improvement.

Awesome job!

EDIT: Beating the warg quest by throwing the wargs at walls and each other is hilarious.

Thanks, Nick. I think most of the credit for [1] thru [3] belongs to the Hengband developers ... I certainly can't claim any credit for game efficiency changes!

As for The Possessor, would players be interested in that? Judging from the characters posted to the ladder, the possessor was not very popular. In fact, I don't see any dumps on the Posband ladder, though I might be missing them if the class does not list as Possessor.

[Nick]

Various people have tried to revive Posband, and I have played with the idea of including Pos-style monster races in FA. Having now played PosCheng a bit for the competition, I am really, really glad that none of the other attempts succeeded, because I can't imagine it being done better than this.

The main things I see as missing from the original Pos are

1. the massive slowdown when teams of oppositely aligned monsters were fighting each other on your level;
2. the consequent piles of free loot;
3. the frequent, hilarious bugs and
4. the Possessor class

I would like to see number 4 if you ever get the time and inclination to implement it; losing the others is an improvement.

Awesome job!

EDIT: Beating the warg quest by throwing the wargs at walls and each other is hilarious.

[Arjen]

Btw, why is the general store value extremely low? It would be nice if you could sell lights for more than the max of 750 gold.

[chris]

It will improve. At least if Chris didn't create a bug between my last death sword character and the newest version.

I hope I didn't

And I promise to fix the light bug for the next release, which is pending the end of the current comp ...

[Arjen]

Just found a quarterstaff of Extra Attacks. Got VERY excited. I now have one of 25 essences that I need. No longer quite so excited

About the light thing, though, will my radius ever improve? I hate feeling blind almost as much as I hate lugging staves and rods around to illuminate the dark corners of the dungeon.

It will improve. At least if Chris didn't create a bug between my last death sword character and the newest version.

[Brouhaha]

Just found a quarterstaff of Extra Attacks. Got VERY excited. I now have one of 25 essences that I need. No longer quite so excited

About the light thing, though, will my radius ever improve? I hate feeling blind almost as much as I hate lugging staves and rods around to illuminate the dark corners of the dungeon.

[Arjen]

Death Sword checking in here! I absorbed some glow in the dark weapon or another and got a +1 bonus to my light radius. By all rights, I should shine like a lantern now, instead of a meager torch. Not the case, unfortunately. I still just illuminate one square around my steely self.

Edit: are there any weapons that give you Levitation essences?

You're a sword! Not a light!

And yeah, egos with a random flag can get them, like Blessed/Trump weapons. And Artifact, like Dr. Jones whip.

[Brouhaha]

Death Sword with low light radius

Death Sword checking in here! I absorbed some glow in the dark weapon or another and got a +1 bonus to my light radius. By all rights, I should shine like a lantern now, instead of a meager torch. Not the case, unfortunately. I still just illuminate one square around my steely self.

Edit: are there any weapons that give you Levitation essences?

[chris]

Thanks. Both appear to be bugs (not code I wrote, but code I am maintaining).

For the second, the original Hengband code is:

else if (((m_ptr->hp < maxhp/2) && one_in_((p_ptr->num_blow[0]+p_ptr->num_blow[1]+1)*10)) || ((one_in_(666) || ((backstab || fuiuchi) && one_in_(11))) && !(r_ptr->flags1 & RF1_UNIQUE) && !(r_ptr->flags7 & RF7_UNIQUE2)))

That is completely incomprehensible to me ... Changing it to

else if ( (m_ptr->hp < maxhp/2 && one_in_(num_blow*10)) 
       || ( (one_in_(666) || ((backstab || fuiuchi) && one_in_(11)))
         && !(r_ptr->flags1 & RF1_UNIQUE) 
         && !(r_ptr->flags7 & RF7_UNIQUE2)) )

at least makes it obvious that it is disjunction with a conjuction in the first branch, and two in the second. Trust me, there are thousands of equally cryptic pieces of code laying about ... You don't want to go there.