Halls of Mist 1.3.0

[buzzkill]

edit: also, he was sleeping when I encountered him, so I ran up and charged at him since I was playing a templar... doesn't letting phantasms spawn asleep kind of defeat the purpose?

Along these lines, should mist creatures flee?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A few thoughts:

1. Torches - I actually like the system as is and don't think it needs to change. I've been playing with mostly low strength characters, and shorter duration torches would mean having to carry more, which is already difficult.

2. Combat - I would say not make any dramatic changes unless they truly improve gameplay. I really like halls of mist as is and I'm concerned that making too many changes will ruin some of the great stuff in the game. I think bows should be left as part of the game. If realism is a concern can have a command to switch between melee weapons and the bow - this would take one turn.
I think the best part about the game is that you really have to use everything in your disposal to win some encounters - stand on tables, use powders, use wands. I would be all for anything that enhances that type of gameplay, including additional terrain types or ways to make stuff in your inventory more effective.

Perhaps you are right about the torches. Of the two clocks, this is the more frustrating if set too tight. Mist phantasm clock can be made tighter and more dangerous -- for example by generating phantasms awake, as ekolis suggested.

Unbalanced weapons might be the biggest problem right now, so I'm not particularly concerned about breaking things. Similarly, armor is too good at the moment, and it's impossible for the player to judge how important AC is.

Thrown weapons would come in stacks and function very similarly to bows. They have one big plus: they double as light melee weapons for characters with very high dex. No need to waste "real" melee weapon slots for weapons like Bullwhip that are junk for most characters.

A big part of the new combat system will be rebalancing the weapon list better. This time I want to ensure that combat gear gets better the deeper you descend. The original system was made for 100 levels, rebalanced for 48 levels very quickly, and that's why the weapon balance is a bit off at the moment.

I see lots of potential plusses in the new system: more interesting equipment choices, better balance, different equipment are good against different monsters like in Sil, and almost perfect transparency of mechanics.

[buzzkill]

Unbalanced weapons might be the biggest problem right now, so I'm not particularly concerned about breaking things. Similarly, armor is too good at the moment, and it's impossible for the player to judge how important AC is.

AC is hard to come by though. Gold is scarce enough that you don't want to flat out buy it. Enchanted armour drops aren't exactly common and are typically only +1 or +2. Also, many characters don't have the strength to wear heavy armour, so they have to assemble an enchanted kit of lightweight pieces. By the time this happens, you're deep enough that having a respectable AC doesn't gain you all that much. Having AC also encourages open space brawling.

I guess what I'm saying is that the current AC system seems to work OK, at least IMO.

[jujuben]

One quick and easy thing I'd like to see for thrown weapons before you start rebalancing/playtesting them: a line in the info display about how suitable for throwing the weapon is, and how much thrown damage it currently does. I've seen this in many variants, so the code for it is presumably out there.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

One quick and easy thing I'd like to see for thrown weapons before you start rebalancing/playtesting them: a line in the info display about how suitable for throwing the weapon is, and how much thrown damage it currently does. I've seen this in many variants, so the code for it is presumably out there.

I'll try to make it clear.

For the moment I think thrown weapons will work like this:

- To hit with an edged weapon, make a Slash check against lightly armored monster, or Pierce check against heavily armored monster. Thrown clubs always use the Bash skill. (Melee attacks use the exact same system.)

- Any weapon light enough to have at least two blows may be thrown effectively. Damage multiplier is normally weapon's max blows minus one, topping at x3.

- If you're throwing a perfectly balanced weapon and succeed in your Aim skill check, damage multiplier = weapon's max blows.

For example, a dagger's thrown damage multiplier is either 3x or 7x, depending on your Aim skill check.

Aim skill is also used for hitting with powder vials or for getting +1 to powder's radius. They will function a bit more like grenades in the new system.

[ekolis]

it's impossible for the player to judge how important AC is.

Amen to that! +4 AC? What's that do? Does it make you 4% less likely to get hit? Reduce damage by 1d4 points per hit? Nope, it goes into some arcane formula that's not explained ANYWHERE in-game, and (unless it's been added recently) you can't even see its effects on anything other than by trial and error!

(Note that this is not a complaint about Mist in particular, but about Angband+variants in general! )

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Some progress in my quest to turn everything into skill checks.

Currently, rituals work like this: Roll MEM + WIS - 1d20. For each remaining 10 points, gain a power point.

They will work like this: First, make an Alchemy skill check to get your symbols straight and all the props just right. Then make a Presence skill check to perform the incantations with poetic skill and power. For each successful skill check, gain a power point.

I also realized that thrown weapon range should be something like (STR / 4) + the weapon's maximum blows. I'm glad to get rid off another arcane formula.

Ekolis: another thing that makes AC impossible to comprehend currently is the fact that different kinds of monster attacks have very different chances to hit you. A given monster might hit you routinely with it's damaging attacks while its attacks to drain STR almost always fail against your AC.

[ekolis]

What are rituals? Are those spells?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

All dungeon books contain a ritual. Anyone, even non-spellcasters, can perform the ritual in a right kind of a magic circle; the book is consumed in the process. A ritual might increase STR or summon mighty weapons, for example, one point or one weapon per power point.

[jujuben]

So, how is ?Teleport Level supposed to interact with min depth and mana? I just used one, and don't remember whether of not it incremented min depth (forgot to check), but it did not reset mana - which was not what I was expecting at all.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

It probably increased Min Depth by one. IIRC it chooses up or down randomly unless your Min Depth is too close to current depth.

I didn't remember to update the spell for ironband mana. Making it worse wasn't a conscious decision at all...

How *should* the scroll function? Opinions?

[buzzkill]

How *should* the scroll function? Opinions?

Assuming it's being used to escape a tight spot... gotta give some mana. Full mana if you go down... 1/2 mana if you go up??? (or up could take you back to town).

[buzzkill]

Can I get 2 seperate blessings from the same goddess at the same time? I found two of the same altar on the same level.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Nope. You can only get "double blessing" for a while if you are already a permanent follower and offer an ego item or artifact.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Here's how equipment would look like under the new system (taking cue from Sil). Numbers are made up for this example.

a Short Sword (+5,1d8,x4)[+5]
a Ring Mail (-5)[-5,2d6]
a Set of Gauntlets [+5]
a Leather Cap [1d4]

In parentheses: bonus or penalty to hit, damage dice, maximum number of blows. (Your dexterity limits your actual number of blows in melee.)

In square brackets: bonus or penalty to parry, armor dice.

Bonuses or penalties are applied directly to the used skill. For example, if your starting Parry skill is 40%, it would raise to 45% with a Short Sword or decrease to 35% with a Ring Mail. With both, it would be 40%. I think bonuses to hit will also apply to the Ambush skill.

Armor dice would be substracted only from hits to that particular location. The relevant locations are head, body and feet. (Gauntlets increase Parry instead.)

All monster attacks have the attack location defined in the monster.txt file. Most attacks will target your body. Usually only rats, cocroaches, snakes, spiders, small faeries, etc. will target your feet; if any damage gets through, you might get poisoned, diseased, or crippled (50% fail chance to walking while the status effect lasts), depending on the attack. I will create similar special effects for monster attacks targeting your head. Engulfing vortices or flying swarm monsters might have three attacks, one against each body part.

Your Parry score is just as relevant against every monster, no matter how dangerous. If you make your percentage check, the attack misses. Period. The armor dice are different -- they tend to be much more important against low-level threats than against heavy hitters.

To dodge ranged attacks, make a Jumping skill check instead of Parry. If your body armour is too heavy for your Strength, you don't get any Dexterity bonuses to Jumping.

I'm trying to make throwing mechanics as transparent as possible. Just by seeing the weapon in your inventory list you should be able to determine its effectiveness as a throwing weapon.

• Range is max blows + (STR / 4).
• When throwing perfectly balanced weapons, make an Aim skill check to determine damage multiplier. The multiplier is equal to max blows if you make your Aim skill check. If you fail or if the weapon is not perfectly balanced, the multiplier is blows minus one, x3 at maximum.
• Perfectly balanced weapons should me marked somehow... Maybe Dagger (+5, 1d4, t7) ?