[FA] FAangband development

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  • Psi
    Knight
    • Apr 2007
    • 870

    #61
    Originally posted by zangbandfreak
    I did, but i couldn't find a place where to define them. Some work though, but i wanted to re-map them.
    Bring up a SIP keyboard and use the @ command. Then create keymap or macro. When it asks for a trigger, just press the hardware key you want to use - I set this up for my device so there is a chance that your device uses different key mappings for its hardware buttons though.

    Comment

    • Nick
      Vanilla maintainer
      • Apr 2007
      • 9636

      #62
      Originally posted by zangbandfreak
      I did, but i couldn't find a place where to define them. Some work though, but i wanted to re-map them.
      If hit '@' and go into the 'interact with macros' screen you should be able to map the hardware buttons, I think. And so does Psi, I now notice

      But now i found that pointing with the stylus also works. I have to figure out where the limits are though, because i'm still walking the wrong way

      Am i correct in assuming you can press around the character and it'll walk in that direction? For left-right/up-down this works great, but for diagonal moves it's a little tricky.
      Correct in principle
      There is a bug in 0.2.2 which means that movement with the stylus is not very accurate; still, one grid at a time should work OK. Tapping further away should send you in approximately the right direction, but the bug makes you start out in the wrong direction before heading toward the tap point.
      One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
      In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

      Comment

      • zangbandfreak
        Rookie
        • May 2007
        • 12

        #63
        Ah. Thanks, both

        Comment

        • Nick
          Vanilla maintainer
          • Apr 2007
          • 9636

          #64
          Wacky idea of the day

          Bookless spellcasting. Here's how it would work:

          - Once you've learnt a spell, you don't need the book to cast it
          - Casting bookless will come at a penalty of more mana and/or increased fail rate
          - You would have a small chance of getting it wrong, and getting some other effect
          - You would be able to cast blind, probably with a greater penalty than just bookless
          - You would be able to cast confused, but with a big chance of the wrong spell
          - Amnesia attacks would eliminate your bookless casting ability - you would have to relearn the spells

          I don't know if I like it, but it's fun to think about.
          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

          Comment

          • CJNyfalt
            Swordsman
            • May 2007
            • 289

            #65
            Originally posted by Nick
            Bookless spellcasting. Here's how it would work:

            - Once you've learnt a spell, you don't need the book to cast it
            - Casting bookless will come at a penalty of more mana and/or increased fail rate
            - You would have a small chance of getting it wrong, and getting some other effect
            - You would be able to cast blind, probably with a greater penalty than just bookless
            - You would be able to cast confused, but with a big chance of the wrong spell
            - Amnesia attacks would eliminate your bookless casting ability - you would have to relearn the spells

            I don't know if I like it, but it's fun to think about.
            The question is, would all the penalties really motivate people to play without the books? Dungeon books are hard to get, so the player would still have to keep one in the home - no gain of an inventory slot. Town books usually contains important spells that you don't want to cast with penalty.

            Comment

            • andrewdoull
              Unangband maintainer
              • Apr 2007
              • 872

              #66
              Originally posted by CJNyfalt
              The question is, would all the penalties really motivate people to play without the books? Dungeon books are hard to get, so the player would still have to keep one in the home - no gain of an inventory slot. Town books usually contains important spells that you don't want to cast with penalty.
              Couldn't you treat this as a 'casting from memory', as opposed to 'bookless casting'?

              You still need to carry the book, but if you can't read, its dark, you're confused, etc. you cast from memory instead. You can cast any spell from memory once, and there is a chance of 'forgetting' a spell equal to the failure percentage, after its cast.

              When you recover from the status effect, you can cast it normally directly from the book, which also refreshes your memory of all spells in that book. Browsing or studying from the book does the same

              The reason I suggest 'from memory' as opposed to 'bookless' is that the book selection UI will differ from other 'object selection' UIs.

              This would help with all the 'unlight magic'/Shadowstalker discussion here and here as well...

              Andrew
              [Editted to add link to Sangband manifesto].
              Last edited by andrewdoull; June 7, 2007, 14:58.
              The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
              In UnAngband, the level dives you.
              ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
              Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

              Comment

              • takkaria
                Veteran
                • Apr 2007
                • 1951

                #67
                Originally posted by Nick
                Bookless spellcasting. Here's how it would work:

                - Once you've learnt a spell, you don't need the book to cast it
                - Casting bookless will come at a penalty of more mana and/or increased fail rate
                - You would have a small chance of getting it wrong, and getting some other effect
                - You would be able to cast blind, probably with a greater penalty than just bookless
                - You would be able to cast confused, but with a big chance of the wrong spell
                - Amnesia attacks would eliminate your bookless casting ability - you would have to relearn the spells

                I don't know if I like it, but it's fun to think about.
                I don't think mana should increase, just fail rate. Casting blind should have the same penalty as bookless casting generally. It should be possible to bring the fail rates for bookless casting for the early spells down to as low as they are with books.

                That's how I'd do it, anyway. I'd also remove amnesia (grr to micromanagement).
                takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

                Comment

                • andrewdoull
                  Unangband maintainer
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 872

                  #68
                  Originally posted by takkaria
                  I don't think mana should increase, just fail rate. Casting blind should have the same penalty as bookless casting generally. It should be possible to bring the fail rates for bookless casting for the early spells down to as low as they are with books.

                  That's how I'd do it, anyway. I'd also remove amnesia (grr to micromanagement).
                  That reminds me: should we include my amnesia proposal for the up and coming release, or the one after?

                  Andrew
                  The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
                  In UnAngband, the level dives you.
                  ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
                  Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

                  Comment

                  • Seany C
                    Swordsman
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 283

                    #69
                    [QUOTE=Nick;918]Bookless spellcasting. Here's how it would work:

                    - Once you've learnt a spell, you don't need the book to cast it
                    - Casting bookless will come at a penalty of more mana and/or increased fail rate.
                    Sounds interesting - worth testing at least...
                    -
                    - You would be able to cast confused, but with a big chance of the wrong spell .
                    Good (if evil) plan. Another evil plan would be to give a small chance that when blind/confused, you use the wrong potion/rod/etc...
                    (although that's really going to put people off carrying !ofDetontations)

                    - Amnesia attacks would eliminate your bookless casting ability - you would have to relearn the spells
                    .
                    Erk- amnesia's already nasty (well, annoying, anyhoo) - I'd restrict the number of mid-level monsters that cast it, in that case...

                    S.

                    Comment

                    • takkaria
                      Veteran
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 1951

                      #70
                      Originally posted by andrewdoull
                      That reminds me: should we include my amnesia proposal for the up and coming release, or the one after?

                      Andrew
                      I did a rough version of this already:


                      It might be a bit nasty as it stands, though.
                      takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

                      Comment

                      • CJNyfalt
                        Swordsman
                        • May 2007
                        • 289

                        #71
                        Originally posted by Nick
                        Bookless spellcasting. Here's how it would work:

                        - Once you've learnt a spell, you don't need the book to cast it
                        - Casting bookless will come at a penalty of more mana and/or increased fail rate
                        - You would have a small chance of getting it wrong, and getting some other effect
                        - You would be able to cast blind, probably with a greater penalty than just bookless
                        - You would be able to cast confused, but with a big chance of the wrong spell
                        - Amnesia attacks would eliminate your bookless casting ability - you would have to relearn the spells

                        I don't know if I like it, but it's fun to think about.
                        Pondering the issue some more and reading replies, I think that there needs to be made clear what's more wanted for future discussion.
                        Is it:
                        A) The ability to sometimes cast spells even if afflicted by negative effects?
                        or
                        B) The ability to free up inventory slots at the cost of spell reliability?

                        I also have to warn against micro-management, having to choose if to cast from memory or from book every time when casting is a very bad idea.

                        Comment

                        • andrewdoull
                          Unangband maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 872

                          #72
                          Originally posted by takkaria
                          I did a rough version of this already:


                          It might be a bit nasty as it stands, though.
                          Couple of comments:

                          a) I think amnesia should cause 100% reliable failure of casting spells.

                          b) I was suggesting that amnesia prevent you activating e.g. dragon armour, rings, artifacts, on the basis that you need to have identified (remembered) these items before being able to use them, as opposed to rods, staffs, wands, which are already affected by confusion.

                          Other than that, looks great. Like how you've compacted amnesia and confusion together. Maybe make them separate for big screen users?

                          Andrew
                          The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
                          In UnAngband, the level dives you.
                          ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
                          Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

                          Comment

                          • andrewdoull
                            Unangband maintainer
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 872

                            #73
                            Originally posted by CJNyfalt
                            Pondering the issue some more and reading replies, I think that there needs to be made clear what's more wanted for future discussion.
                            Is it:
                            A) The ability to sometimes cast spells even if afflicted by negative effects?
                            or
                            B) The ability to free up inventory slots at the cost of spell reliability?

                            I also have to warn against micro-management, having to choose if to cast from memory or from book every time when casting is a very bad idea.
                            Definitely want to make this as intuitive as possible e.g. from book where ever permitted.

                            I'll have a working implementation of my suggestion in Unangband wip6 for the curious...
                            The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
                            In UnAngband, the level dives you.
                            ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
                            Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

                            Comment

                            • Nick
                              Vanilla maintainer
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 9636

                              #74
                              Originally posted by CJNyfalt
                              Pondering the issue some more and reading replies, I think that there needs to be made clear what's more wanted for future discussion.
                              Is it:
                              A) The ability to sometimes cast spells even if afflicted by negative effects?
                              or
                              B) The ability to free up inventory slots at the cost of spell reliability?
                              Well, it's both, I guess. It started with the idea that needing to have the book to cast the spell just seems a little odd (although there are plenty of other odd things I might have picked on, too). So I started thinking about the gameplay implications of making books unnecessary. Being able to cast when blind was a natural outcome, and I've been thinking for a while about allowing some kind of casting when confused.

                              Originally posted by CJNyfalt
                              I also have to warn against micro-management, having to choose if to cast from memory or from book every time when casting is a very bad idea.
                              Agreed, and I like UnAndrew's solution of using the book when you have it.

                              Originally posted by Seany C
                              Another evil plan would be to give a small chance that when blind/confused, you use the wrong potion/rod/etc...
                              (although that's really going to put people off carrying !ofDetontations)
                              One can of worms at a time, I think

                              Originally posted by Seany C
                              Erk- amnesia's already nasty (well, annoying, anyhoo) - I'd restrict the number of mid-level monsters that cast it, in that case...
                              Yes, but at the moment it's really just an annoyance without major gameplay implications. It would become a very dangerous attack, and probably would have to be pushed a bit deeper.

                              Originally posted by takkaria
                              I don't think mana should increase, just fail rate. Casting blind should have the same penalty as bookless casting generally. It should be possible to bring the fail rates for bookless casting for the early spells down to as low as they are with books.
                              I was actually more in favour of increasing mana than increasing failrates, although maybe I think both should happen a little. I agree about blind=bookless, and probably about early spell bookless failrates/mana use getting down to ordinary levels. It might be, for example, that a spellcaster would only carry the books with spells that were more critical to get right, and just live with penalties on utility spells.

                              Originally posted by takkaria
                              I'd also remove amnesia (grr to micromanagement).
                              See my comments above - the having-to-re-identify-everything would become a trivial side-effect of amnesia

                              Originally posted by andrewdoull
                              The reason I suggest 'from memory' as opposed to 'bookless' is that the book selection UI will differ from other 'object selection' UIs.
                              This is a really good point that I hadn't thought of. Maybe I won't ever bother with this because of the mess it makes of the UI
                              One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                              In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                              Comment

                              • CJNyfalt
                                Swordsman
                                • May 2007
                                • 289

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Nick
                                Well, it's both, I guess. It started with the idea that needing to have the book to cast the spell just seems a little odd (although there are plenty of other odd things I might have picked on, too). So I started thinking about the gameplay implications of making books unnecessary. Being able to cast when blind was a natural outcome, and I've been thinking for a while about allowing some kind of casting when confused.
                                Well, amnesia could quickly mean a dead spellcaster, if they don't carry books.
                                So, if you want both, you have to think long and har about how to avoid making amnesia too troublesome.
                                BTW, how about some new specialty tied to bookless casting?

                                Comment

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