Blackguards: 4.2.1 to 4.2.2 (and beyond?)

[archolewa]

Also, werewolves in Tolkien seem to look just like wolves, but have intelligent spirits infused into them. So all the shapechange restrictions make sense if we picture that kind of werewolf.

This is largely how I imagine it. This is the form that Sauron's werewolf shape takes, and humanoid wolf monster just feels kind of...goofy in a Tolkienesque world.

I'm honestly OK with werewolf form burning SP faster as well. As it is, my heavy reliance on the form means I almost always have full SP in the mid and endgame, so I don't mind there being a bit more SP pressure.

[Grotug]

In general this sounds good. However, slowing when you miss is one serious downside. Maybe its not a big deal in the endgame, but many of the most dangerous enemies (including Morgoth) are so fast that it can be difficult to get up to speed with, and double moves risk instant death.

The last thing I need is to risk double moves from Morgoth because I missed! I feel like if you want a big downside, making it so expensive that you cant cast it more than once or twice with full SP would be sufficient. Keep in mind that draining all or most of your SP means you cant cast other spells until you get it back up. Thats a pretty high opportuniy cost for a class so reliant on in combat spells.

I mean, you could spam potions of mana, but using this spell every other turn isnt doing any more damage than bumping every turn. Especially since missing would be the equivalent of missing every attack!

Thats actually another concern. The final spell has two modes of failure: spell failure and attack missing. I worry that the two combined will make the spell too unreliable to be worth using. Im willing to wait and see though.

I think having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!

So as to not be too overpowered in the late game you could have the slowness effect be that it divides your current speed by 2, rather than just reducing your speed by -10 (trivial if you have +40 speed). This way trivializing major fights will difficult or impossible: I don't think it's possible to reach 6x normal speed, due to the diminishing returns on excessive speed. 6x normal speed is what you would need in order to prevent being double moved my Sauron, for example, and other foes that "moves very quickly".

Dividing speed by 2 might be too brutal, perhaps dividing by 1.5 would be more reasonable. I believe that would make normal speed appear as -5 in the game's original/old speed display (0.75x normal speed) and +30 speed as +15 (2.5x speed). I'm trying to remember what the player's actual speed is when they have something like +60 speed. I think it's something like approaching 5x but not quite which is about +23 in the game's old/original display of speed. So with lots of excess speed you could achieve safety from double moves by Sauron and most every monster in the game, but not Morgoth (that seems more appropriate).

You could call the new spell *Shatter* instead of Smite (Titans similarly shatter with insane damage).

I might also suggest that the *Shatter* attack would blast a hole in the ground instead of make a lava square. The hole could be a pit trap. So basically you'd be able to create traps on the dungeon floor (that monsters I suppose could ignore like other traps), or for more fun and distinctiveness for the spell, the new trap would need to be discovered by monsters either by good perception (master rogues would see them before stepping on them, but most others would not).

Perhaps this trap could be a new trap type: it looks like a normal pit and behaves like one most of the time, but there is a chance for the trap to confuse, stun or hallucinate the player (or monster) -- (with the chance to hallucinate being lower than that of to confuse or to stun). So the created trap would be unique to the spell, which adds nice flavor and exclusivity to a spell that is relatively rarefied and expensive.

[DavidMedley]

These are interesting ideas, Grotug, but labor intensive. I don't think I'll be the guy to program traps for monsters.

"having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!" -- I don't think many would agree with this statement.

[whartung]

I think having a low chance of insta death is a small price to pay for being able to take Morgoth out in a handful of turns!

Philosophically, I'm totally opposed to this.

Arguably the entire point of the game is to survive RNG and prepare yourself for the final fight.

If, in the end, the final fight is nothing but a dice roll (since by definition, you can't prevent "insta-death", no matter how rare), then it makes all of the earlier preparation moot.

There's enough RNG going on with the summons and everything else, but even those aren't necessarily insta-death.

People should be able to go in to the final fight confident through their experience and gearing and preparation that they will prevail, but having it all for naught due to a single bad roll I think really disrespects all the work the player put in to get to that point in the first place.

Of course the player can CHOOSE to go in ill-prepared, thus relying on luck. "As long as X, Y, and Z don't happen, I should prevail."

But players that take the time to gear properly should be able to take the game with certainty.

[archolewa]

I agree with Whartung. Dropping your speed by half (or any multiplier) would make the spell a bigger dud than the current Quake. The only monsters it would be smart to use the spell on would the ones you dont need to.

At least a flat penalty like -5 you can compensate for. Might be worth wearing that extra Ring of Speed instead of a Ring of Damage if it means you can safely use your uber spell.

Creating a pit rather than lava would be fine. It would allow you to use the side effects of the spell as an escape! Jumping through a hole in the ground that you yourself created to escape Omarax has a certain cinematic flair.

[wobbly]

Had fun with this. Thanks to David Medley for your work, & Nick for the initial idea of a bad stealth berserker.

I'll hmm... go through the spell list? If you want something else, just ask.

spell:Seek Battle - a detect, self explanatory.
spell:Berserk Strength - works as a fear cure. Other then that I fell berserk needs work in general in vanilla. I always feel the downside in AC is worse then the +hit. Frogcompos has a more fun version.
spell:Leap into Battle - used it a fair bit up to warg form which has fast move. Still used it occasionally, between the 2 spells I could get up close to Qs and drujs and just smash
spell:Shatter Stone - dig spell. dig good.
spell:Whirlwind Attack - needs to work with bloodlust to be worth it.
spell:Grim Purpose - obviously good

spell:Maim Foe - good spell didn't use much after warg form, because can't cast when you are a warg
spell:Howl of the Damned - didn't use much. Probably strong though, seeing the wargs fear effect in action... It was Maia and great drakes at times.
spell:Relentless Taunting - ran this non stop. One of my 4 core spells in the end. Bloodlust, Taunt, Venom, Werewolf. Those were the 4 I just spammed in the endgame.
spell:Venom - another of my core. I used firestar for a while and it's actually a good weapon with a 2nd brand. Then I had Orome which is another fire brand. I think balrogs might be effected by poison?
spell:Werewolf Form - a woooh...

spell:Bloodlust - risked Morgoth with this. Actually I risked everything with this. Taresque, Pitfiends, the unique canines, Sauron. Not sensible, but it is damn brutal & maybe you can just get away with it. I certainly did.
spell:Unholy Reprieve - useful. especially considering bloodlust side effects.
spell:Forceful Blow - forgot this existed. I think I used it around the point I got it though?
spell:Quake - used it as a sight breaker in the Morgoth fight and as a pseudo heal. Its ok, but not wonderful

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Thanks for this spell analysis, Wobbly. I haven't got all the books yet, and just started learning the 2nd book spells. Nice to have a heads-up on how they might be used.

[Sphara]

@wobbly
Excellent summary of blackguard spells, hard to disagree with it. I maybe used Maim Foe more than you, but it becomes pretty much useless after finding a wand of stun monster.

[DavidMedley]

You'd rather use a wand of stun monster? That's a problem, if you have a legitimate case.

[Sphara]

You'd rather use a wand of stun monster? That's a problem, if you have a legitimate case.

Maim Foe is a very good spell because stunning is really crippling on a monster. Also, for a blackguard getting Maim is guaranteed, whereas getting a wand of stunning isn't. It's just that the wand never misses and can be used at range that makes me prefer it, if I have it.

[gglibertine]

@wobbly
Excellent summary of blackguard spells, hard to disagree with it. I maybe used Maim Foe more than you, but it becomes pretty much useless after finding a wand of stun monster.

I'm curious about this -- what exactly are the effects of stunning? I've never found stun monster all that useful, but maybe I'm using it wrong.

[Pete Mack]

Monster's damage and hit probability are both reduced significantly. Monster has a noticeable chance to miss a turn. For the player, the result is a similar reduction in melee as well as a flat reduction in spell failure (15% failure rate added to all spells.)

[archolewa]

Personally I prefer Maim Foe over the wand because it never runs out of charges, doesn't take a precious inventory slot, does a bit of damage and a bit of heating. Mostly for the saved inventory slot. An attack wand is nice to have instead since Blackguards have pretty weak shooting.

[Nick]

How are you feeling about blackguards now, David? It's just that there are only three outstanding bugs in the nightlies, and I'm pretty confident I'm not going to fix two of then ever, so it's probably close to time to give up and release 4.2.2.

On the other hand if you want to take longer, then presumably backwardsEric will go on polishing the codebase until it shines, so we're good either way

[DavidMedley]

Let me make a few tweaks. I'll save the rest for the next version. End of this weekend a good deadline?