Angband 4.2.1

[lea2501]

It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.

I think that its okay to name it with "speed" and "movement speed" etc, but i think we surely need a official guide to speed with detailed effects, and differences between them, how different speeds interact between them, etc, so a novice player like me can go for reference.

[DavidMedley]

As far as I understand it:
If you have +3 Speed and +1 movement speed, your speed is +13 WHEN YOU ARE WALKING. As long as you do ANY OTHER action (attack, eat, zap a wand), your speed is +3.

People who know the code, please correct me if I happen to be wrong.

You are close, but speeds do not add like you suggest; they multiply. In your example it should be 1.3x general speed but effectively 2.6x speed for walking (aka +16 or so, not +13).

[whartung]

Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.

So, is that how the game works?

It simply adds "energy" to every entity that's active. Then, for that tick, it gives an action to anyone with more than 10 energy, and then deducts 10 energy. It repeatedly does this until no one active is over 10, then it fires another tick?

    // run tick
    // add energy
    for e in active_entities
        e.energy = e.energy + e.speed;
        if e.energy > 10 then acting_entities.add(e);
    end for

    // consume energy
    while not acting_entities.empty
        for e in acting_entities
            if e.energy > 10 then
                action(e);
                e.energy = e.energy - 10;
                if e.energy < 10 then active_entities.remove(e);
            end if
        end for
    end while

[Nick]

Speed is the energy regained in a game tick. If it's +0 you gain 10 energy/tick, +3 you gain 13 energy/tick, -10 it's 5 energy/tick.

This is essentially correct, but possibly not clear. To be absolutely precise, the player's speed as presented is an index into this table (where the 10 line consists of speeds +10 to +19, etc):

	/* -100 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -90 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -80 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -70 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -60 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
	/*  -40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
	/*  -30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
	/*  -20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
	/*  -10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
	/*    0 */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
	/*  +10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
	/*  +20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
	/*  +30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
	/*  +40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
	/*  +50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
	/*  +60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
	/*  +70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
	/*  +80 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,

So each game tick the player accumulates the amount of energy indicated - at 0 speed 10, at +3 speed 13, at -10 speed 5, and so on. Once the player's energy reaches 100, they get a turn - so that takes 10 ticks at normal speed, 8 ticks at +3 speed (8x13=104), 20 ticks at -10 speed.

Move speed reduces the energy cost of moving. A normal action takes 100 energy. At +1 move it costs 50 energy (only movement not other actions), +shots on a bow work the same.

This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.

Also on what we call this - it's been traditional in Angband for a while to call extra blows "attack speed" and extra shots "shooting speed", which is why I went with "movement speed" for extra moves. Maybe it would be better to just use extra * for all these.

[bughunter]

This is exactly correct. Note that the player still needs to get to 100 energy before they get to act. So if a player with +1 Moves and normal speed is walking, each step will only cost 50 energy, so they'll be back at 100 and able to move again in only 5 ticks.

So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy?

As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?

[Nick]

So, then with +2 Movement Speed, for example, each step will only cost 33 energy?

As in, cost = 100/(1+sum_of_movement_speed_bonuses) ?

Yes, that's right.

[Sideways]

It is really bad design to have two different things use the same term to describe them. If +3 Speed and +1 Movement Speed are truly different, then one should be renamed, such as +1 Movement Bonus. Although it seems from the above that it should actually be called +10 Movement Bonus.

While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.)

"+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot

[Pete Mack]

With +3 speed and fast walk, your walking speed is increased by 2×, not by +10: i.e it becomes+16. In general, fast actions take 1/2 normal energy, be it walking, shooting, or casting. Note that Fast walk with +1 extra shot or fast cast guarantees full pillardance capability against same-speed monsters.

[Egavactip]

While movement speed is completely unlike speed, it's extremely similar to shooting speed, which also uses the word speed. (I'm not saying it isn't potentially confusing terminology - clearly it is, since people are being confused by it - but the ideal solution would be to more clearly communicate what it does.)

"+10 movement speed" is wrong in that +moves cannot be translated to +speed that way, but right in that it would be equivalent to +10 shooting speed, which in current V is +1 extra shot

I'd prefer shooting rate over shooting speed but at least shooting speed occurs in the clear context of missile weapons, whereas movement speed and speed both involve character movement through the dungeon, it seems. Very confusing.

[Sphara]

Is this known or been fixed already?

Fighting Beorn with an axe Beorn dropped.

[lea2501]

Is this known or been fixed already?

Fighting Beorn with an axe Beorn dropped.

How are you playing with those mini windows embebbed in the main window with no borders?

[Sphara]

I don't know. I'm playing on angband.live and with my subwindow settings, this is how it looks like. No borderlines

Settings:
right cols 40
right split 10
top rows 0
bottom rows 10

term1 - monsters
term2 - items
term3 - messages

[DavidMedley]

I think a good point has been made here... What we're calling moves +1 should be moves +10 to stay consistent. This also opens up more gradations of movement speed, which I think is very good also.

On topic but a much bigger project: really fast moving stuff like birds should use +moves instead of +speed. Slow stuff like Colossi -moves. Their attacks would have to be adjusted. Then AC could have a built in bonus or penalty to ranged combat only based on moves. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Pete Mack]

@David:
No! And again no! Fast movement and the like are NOT equivalent to +10 speed, and it is misleading to show them as such. The issue is that the archery description is broken. What is shown as +1 shot should be +0.1 shot, though its raw pval display can remain as +1.

[Pete Mack]

Here is an alternative, if you don't like the +1 display. Show fast action as a multiplier, so +1 movement and fast cast (and + 10 shot) are shown as x2. But whatever you do, don't follow the existing +shots model, which shows an misleading number that appears commensurate with speed but means something completely different