Class/magic feature branch

[Nick]

a) 6 books, 30 spells => ok?

Not sure. Currently town books are readily available but can burn, whereas dungeon books are harder to find but indestructible; this has to be considered when deciding how many of each to have. I'd probably rather go with 5 books for the extra inventory slot. 30 spells is about right.

b) is it ok to leave banishment and mass banishment out?
=> if not, then i guess mass banishment replaces globe of protection in #6
and banishment replaces explosion in #5

I'm inclined to leave the banishment spells in for now, but make it so that they (and Destruction and Earthquake) don't affect vault squares.

c) the name for the mage hybrid class is not fixed yet it seems, while the others seem to be agreed on:
Warlock, Battlemage, other title? Warlock sounds pretty cool tho

At this point I'm not looking at a hybrid class for each pure spellcaster class, but rather at designing interesting class concepts and then deciding what magic they need. For example, I don't think there's an obvious halfway class to necromancer, but there are several possibilities which might dabble in death magic.

To the actual spells and order, it mostly looks OK to me; I'm going to keep adjusting what I have rather than adopting it as a whole, though. Some specifics:

• probe and telepathy don't feel arcane to me, and I don't really want to give mages stone to mud either
• fire ball I would probably want earlier as a crowd control measure; it can start off weak
• shield and globe of protection are interesting ideas, but I suspect the second is too powerful
• I'd rather have just one recharge spell, I think it can be set up so it scales well enough
• resist cold and resist fire are pretty useless by themselves, I don't think they're worth spell slots
• I still like some spells you've removed, like Disruption, Thrust Away, Door Creation

I will be trying to get an update out in the next couple of days.

[Nick]

> In terms of adding realms and re-arranging spells and books, both paths can be done almost entirely in data files.

Can you show here a snippet from one of these data files?

A.

Further to what kaypy said, here's the whole first bit of the new mage class:

############### NEW MAGE ###############
name:New Mage
stats:-3:3:0:0:-2
skill-disarm-phys:30:10
skill-disarm-magic:35:12
skill-device:36:13
skill-save:30:9
skill-stealth:2:0
skill-search:10:12
skill-melee:34:15
skill-shoot:20:15
skill-throw:20:15
skill-dig:0:0
info:0:30
attack:4:40:2
equip:food:Ration of Food:1:3
equip:light:Wooden Torch:1:3
equip:sword:Dagger:1:1
equip:scroll:Word of Recall:1:1
flags:CUMBER_GLOVE | ZERO_FAIL | BEAM | CHOOSE_SPELLS
title:Novice
title:Apprentice
title:Trickster
title:Illusionist
title:Spellbinder
title:Evoker
title:Conjurer
title:Warlock
title:Sorcerer
title:Arch-Mage

magic:1:300:5

book:magic book:town:[Detection and Escape]:7:arcane
book-graphics:?:R
book-properties:25:40:1 to 100
equip:magic book:[Detection and Escape]:1:1

spell:Find Traps, Doors & Stairs:1:1:20:2
effect:DETECT_TRAPS
dice:22d40
effect:DETECT_DOORS
dice:22d40
effect:DETECT_STAIRS
dice:22d40
desc:Detects all traps, doors, and stairs in the immediate area.

Notice that the book lines create the entire definition of the book - it doesn't appear in object.txt at all any more, which is why the giving the player a copy at birth requires an equip: line after the book definition. The realms are defined in realm.txt:

name:arcane
stat:INT
verb:cast
spell-noun:spell
book-noun:magic book

and the only hard-coding required is a line in list-tvals.h:

TV(MAGIC_BOOK,	"magic book",	0)

and some other basically informational stuff which could probably come out to the data files with a bit of work.

[kaypy]

and the only hard-coding required is a line in list-tvals.h:

TV(MAGIC_BOOK,	"magic book",	0)

and some other basically informational stuff which could probably come out to the data files with a bit of work.

Is there any consequence of the TV of a book? Or, if someone was doing a minimal effort rejig of the magic system, is there any reason they would need to recompile, or could they just shoehorn books into the existing TVs?

There's the object memory categorization of course, but I don't offhand think there's much else affected... Am I missing anything?

[Nick]

Is there any consequence of the TV of a book? Or, if someone was doing a minimal effort rejig of the magic system, is there any reason they would need to recompile, or could they just shoehorn books into the existing TVs?

There's the object memory categorization of course, but I don't offhand think there's much else affected... Am I missing anything?

It's pretty much just how they display in inventory, object memory and ignoring. I was actually thinking of putting a dummy tval TV_OTHER_BOOK, call it "strange book" or something, and have it display as "Book of Mystery"; that way adding new distinct realms would seem less hacky.

[Tibarius]

good job

Just would like to mention that you do a good job Nick. You know, i play this game since ... three centuries now. And you keep it up to date and in form. I realy like the last changes from you. The direction is very good in my eyes.

Idea for birth options:
I think instead to have a birth option with a yes/no flag for connected stairs
it would be better to increase dungeon difficulty level by making un-connecting stairs more common the deeper you go. Almost always connected (1/10) till DL 30, 1/4 for unconnected stairs till DL 60, 1/2 chance for unconnected stairs deeper than DL 60

[Tibarius]

announce update

I will be trying to get an update out in the next couple of days.

Please post a notice in this thread if an update is out. Thanks!

[Antoine]

Thanks for posting the file

[PowerWyrm]

For example, I don't think there's an obvious halfway class to necromancer, but there are several possibilities which might dabble in death magic.

Rogue is pretty obvious no? Create Poison, Stinking Cloud, Invisibility...

[Tibarius]

+1

Rogue is pretty obvious no? Create Poison, Stinking Cloud, Invisibility...

I thought so too that rogue is basically a very 'natural' hybrid class for necromancer.

[Ighalli]

Rogue is pretty obvious no? Create Poison, Stinking Cloud, Invisibility...

I figured rogues would remain arcane and keep their tricksy ways of detection and escapes. Black knight, death knight or anti-paladin would seem a better death hybrid theme to me.

[Nick]

Rogue is pretty obvious no? Create Poison, Stinking Cloud, Invisibility...

I could certainly visualise rogues using death magic, but I don't think they're the obvious candidate in the same way as, say, paladin is for holy magic - where it's kind of in the definition of what you mean by paladin. In fact, rogues might be a good multi-realm candidate - death and arcane.

[Derakon]

An assassin would be a good Death hybrid class, but I agree that a rogue, in the popular conception, is more of a technical/sneaky/acrobatic/generalist kind of character. In fact, the popular rogue isn't capable of spellcasting at all; their primary job in the classic party is to deal with traps and provide a wide variety of support skills.

[Nick]

New builds up on the build page (or will be shortly) with an updated new mage, as follows:

[Path of the Mage]
Magic Missile
Find Traps, Doors & Stairs
Phase Door
Detect Monsters
Recharging
Fire Ball

[Attacks and Knowledge]
Identify Rune
Lightning Beam
Treasure Detection
Fire Bolt
Reveal Monsters
Acid Spray

[Magical Defences]
Disable Traps, Destroy Doors
Teleport Self
Teleport Other
Resistance
Disruption

[Arcane Control]
Door Creation
Mana Bolt
Teleport Level
Dimension Door
Thrust Away

[Wizard's Tome of Power]
Shock Wave
Explosion
Banishment
Mass Banishment
Mana Storm

I've also nerfed Banishment, Mass Banishment and *Destruction* so that they don't affect vault grids.

[Tibarius]

erm ?

Just some questions Nick:
+ frost bolt removed (so that magic missile must alst way longer than CL 7)
+ fire bolt damage stayed same, but mana cost increased from 3 to 5
+ most important mid level spell acid beam was removed to acid spray which is much less usefull
+ haste self was removed
+ stone to mud was removed
+ light and spear of light was removed
+ ok , mana bolt does slightly more damage than meteor shower
+ mana storm still has damage 400

So playing mage becomes even MORE harder, much harder indeed than before. Was that the intention? Or what do you have in mind as compensation?

Edit: After thinking about it, i won't testplay that. That is no fun to play - at least for me.

[Philip]

The Detection and information suite of spells seems somewhat weak there. I imagine it's still supposed to be one of the great strengths of the class, along with teleportation/control effects and recharging? If so, the Detection spell is extremely handy for a lot of reasons, as is magic mapping and Enlightenment, which don't really belong in the Priest set anyway.