Class/magic feature branch

[Nick]

New builds are up on the build page, including the new Necromancer class.

This class is based on the manipulation of spirits. Tolkien wrote of the Unbodied or Houseless - spirits whose bodies had died, but who had refused the call to Valinor - "To attempt to master them and to make them servants of one's own will is wickedness. Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant."

So I have implemented this by making necromancers lovers of darkness, and their spells dangerous. They involve the use of poison, nether, chaos and darkness as elements, and will frequently hurt or otherwise endanger the player. I have borrowed some ideas from O/FA necromancers, but these are really quite different. Some specific points:

• Necromancers can see in the dark, and get native RDark; they also get +3 to stealth for not carrying a light source
• A new monster race flag, RF_SPIRIT, has been introduced, which is given to monsters which have a soul (roughly); necros can do things like detect and banish these
• They get some shapechenges, all of which cost hitpoints as well as mana; some of their other spells also deal hitpoint damage, and they have a spell for turning hitpoints into mana

I also should point out that their final spell, Command, is not finished. In its current form, casting it on a monster makes that monster totally unable to move for a while (unlike the hold status, which is released if the monster is damaged). The intention of Command is that the player actually gets to operate the monster instead of themselves for the short time - at least move, but probably also cast spells and drop items. The problem is that it's going to take lots of work to implement, and I didn't want to hold up consideration of the class as a whole for that I was too impatient.

So, there it is. Let me know what you think. I had so much fun designing this class

[Nick]

On the mana recovery thing, it should be possible to give mages some mana recovery options without completely unbalancing them. Depending on the spell realm, perhaps something like:

- drain own devices' charges for SP

The new mage class on this branch gets this.

[Antoine]

On the mana recovery thing, it should be possible to give mages some mana recovery options without completely unbalancing them. Depending on the spell realm, perhaps something like:

- drain own HP for SP
- drain own devices' charges for SP
- triple SP regeneration for X turns
- drain a nearby monster's HP for SP
-...?

A.

[Nick]

New builds up on the build page which fix the bug which stopped the mana display from updating when the player hit 0 mana.

Hopefully something more substantial before too long.

[Thraalbee]

Derakon - you are right about the long corridors and huge rooms - with unlimited mana you can take down big groups or very strong foes even with a nerfed magic missile plus phase door.

[Thraalbee]

In my current project there is no regen of mana. To compensate you start with a ton of mana that may or may not be just enough to last the entire game.

The balance of magic is totally whacked by this. Even after a huge nerf to both spell lists and spell effects, it is hard not to make the @ overpowered.

[Derakon]

Why would you think it would be too powerfull if mages had a mid level (something about CL 35) spell that costs around 50 mana and restores 90 mana?

Once the mage is out of mana he is an easy prey. And that does not realy change, if he needs about 5-6 turns to restore his full mana.

Right now, i have a keymap for rest @ until *. That only works in an save environment, the difference to using a keymap a couple of times to restore mana via spell is basically that the turncount resting would be reduced. Or?

As we've discussed in the past, you can use non-spell-based offense, e.g. magic devices, missile weapons, or melee, to supplement your spells. If your mage is easy prey when they're out of mana, then you're not taking full advantage of their abilities: spells are their greatest strength but by no means their only ability. I know you're opposed to the idea that mages accomplish anything except by casting spells, but I strongly doubt this is going to change. Ideally every class should have a potential reason to use every item in the game; otherwise what are those items for? Setting up one class to be able to ignore everything that isn't a spellbook, stat-boosting equipment, or potion just doesn't sound fun.

Do not underestimate the utility inherent in not having to rest to recover. The less time you spend on a level, the fewer awake monsters you will encounter and the easier the entire game becomes. If we give you a tool to obviate resting entirely, then we're removing a major source of tension from the game.

Not to mention of course that there's very little stopping you from using it in a combat scenario; you just need enough distance (and, when using spells, you should be fighting from range anyway) and a way to temporarily obstruct line of sight so you're protected while casting. Such as, for example, a wall or a door.

[Tibarius]

mana recovery

Why would you think it would be too powerfull if mages had a mid level (something about CL 35) spell that costs around 50 mana and restores 90 mana?

Once the mage is out of mana he is an easy prey. And that does not realy change, if he needs about 5-6 turns to restore his full mana.

Right now, i have a keymap for rest @ until *. That only works in an save environment, the difference to using a keymap a couple of times to restore mana via spell is basically that the turncount resting would be reduced. Or?

[PowerWyrm]

So what are the most annoying properties of a mage?

a) needs endless resting for new mana ...
so i either think maximum mana should be calculated like hit points OR give them a spell that restores some mana, so you can 'restore' mana within let's say 5-6 turns

b) that mana storm has failure rate > 0% when maxxed out with int, CL and gear ... it doesn't change gameplay just annoys the player, please reduce the fail % so that a maxxed out mage has 0%

Anything else was basically great and doesn't require any tweaking in my eyes.

a) Giving mages a Restore Mana spell would be way too powerful, but I like the idea of a Restore Mana rod. That also gives me an idea for PWMAngband: create a Restore Mana spell, give it to a different class (need to find out which) to encourage mages to team up with another player just like warriors team up with priests to get healing.

b) +1 to reducing Mana Storm fail rate (not necessarily to 0% though)

[jevansau]

Another mage playthrough (at build 17)

I did a mage play through with randarts and I'd say if anything it was a bit easier than the old mage. This may have been because I got lucky with items, as i ended up with resist all, immune all, 28 perma speed and all important stats maxed. I think the nerfed banishments and no rune of protection or stone to mud change the playstyle, but dimension door and fast casting more than make up for it.

You do end up using items more, especially before the end game, but that is OK.

I still think the max generation depth of randarts should scale with the overall power of the object group. This especially affects lights, but also amulets.

[Tibarius]

mage playtrough in 4.1.2

So what are the most annoying properties of a mage?

a) needs endless resting for new mana ...
so i either think maximum mana should be calculated like hit points OR give them a spell that restores some mana, so you can 'restore' mana within let's say 5-6 turns

b) that mana storm has failure rate > 0% when maxxed out with int, CL and gear ... it doesn't change gameplay just annoys the player, please reduce the fail % so that a maxxed out mage has 0%

Anything else was basically great and doesn't require any tweaking in my eyes.

[Nick]

Fix has been pushed for the crash in browsing book 2 - should be on the build page soon.

The mana display bug is confirmed and annoying, thanks to everyone who reported. Not fixed yet, will be when I get around to tracking down which vital refresh instruction I apparently deleted accidentally. Temporary workaround is to manually refresh any time you notice SP at 0.

[jevansau]

Got the same issue with the game crashing - seems to be caused by browsing book Gifts of Nature when the spell Earth Rising is known and has been cast. This is on the build 82.

[Estie]

I used the save-load solution, havent downloaded the fixed version yet.

1. When mana goes down to zero, it sometimes displays zero even after resting.

2. Trying to cast sense surroundings crashes the game

save file: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...60929999261991
randart file: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...54288393669695

Edit: it seems browsing/casting from book 2 causes the crash; unfortunately, it is persistent and I cant play that character anymore.

[Nick]

OK, there's a fix pushed; new builds should be up shortly.