Randart Players PLS REPLY

[Derakon]

I don't play randarts... yet (still enjoying standarts too much to feel the need to make the switch just yet ). But what's the reasoning for wanting to get rid of extra shots/blows/might? These are good things for the game.

Direct damage bonuses that aren't tied to your weapon are very hard to balance correctly. The power of a pair of gloves with +1 blows is effectively a percentage boost to the damage of whatever the strongest weapon you find is, which is potentially very powerful indeed...and potentially not that great if you have bad luck with weapons. Ditto with extra might. Extra shots is just a bad idea in general because of how huge the multiplier is.

Weapons and launchers could still get generated with extra blows/might "directly" on them, because then you can only get the bonus if you're using that weapon/launcher. That's a lot easier to balance; a dagger with +1 blows has a pretty tightly constrained power.

[Sky]

Well the game recently was nice enough to generate a bladeturner with +2 blows, and not *A* single big die weapon, to balance it out.
In another, i found a weapon with 5d8 base, no slays, no brands, no activation, (+6,+8) and resist fear.whoppitydo.

[Pete Mack]

Nick--extra shots and blows are fine. Just limit the maximum effective multiplier* to 8 or so (lower for bows), and things are fine.


*. (Base+might)*blows

[Azuria]

I play randarts because I like not knowing what kind of stuff I'm going to have to work with.
I think the current randarts are fine, although the occasional one that gives +9 to a stat is a bit wierd (Playing nightlies, Dec 30 atm).
My biggest problem with the randarts is that high stat bonuses are much more common, with +4 or +5 being commonplace, meaning that its almost too easy to maximise all of the relevant stats.
I think that speed should be fairly evenly distributed between the different randart types, such that if you find a nice set of boots that don't give speed, you don't feel like you'll have to use a different pair of boots to get enough.

[AnonymousHero]

[*]Some tweaking of the current artifact set (along the lines of PowerWyrm's thinking)

I think it might be interesting to explore a) having no option to choose between randarts and standarts, and b) allowing both full sets, and c) significantly weakening the standarts. (Though I suspect it would be very controversial.)

I hypothesize that this should make it a bit less frustrating to cover everything you need, but still give varied and interesting gameplay via interesting choices (assuming limits on inventory/home).

[*]Remove off-type slays, brands, extra might, extra shots and extra blows[/LIST]

I don't really understand the desire to do this. AFAICT these things are so rare in practice that they are not a problem in any way.

(If you see a lot of it on the ladder, then that just people people tend to post characters that win... and characters that find these types of items tend to win. Plus there's an option to retain randart sets between games, so it's pretty feasible to scum and just play with that set. Must be a least some players who do that. Honestly, I've never understood why that option is there -- unless it's for debugging... in which case, just let players *specify* the seed -- no need to go through the clumsy option system.)

[Pete Mack]

@Azura-- while I'm flattered by the quote, I wish it weren't quite so prominently displayed. Your sig is confusing because it looks too much like part of the thread.

[dos350]

after my first win i always played randarts,

my second win was randart priest in like 3.4

now i havnt won since but i think randart are quite fun as they are

[Nomad]

Plus there's an option to retain randart sets between games, so it's pretty feasible to scum and just play with that set. Must be a least some players who do that. Honestly, I've never understood why that option is there -- unless it's for debugging... in which case, just let players *specify* the seed -- no need to go through the clumsy option system.

Actually, you've reminded me of one tiny thing I would change about randarts - it's annoying that this "keep previous set of randarts" game option defaults to switched on and I have to remember to toggle it off every time I start a new savefile. Having the same set of artefacts recur game to game is the complete opposite of what I play with randarts for. (I too wouldn't miss the option if it was gone, but at the very least I think it should be switched off by default.)

[Sky]

@AnonymousHero

Create a new game of randarts, suicide and create a spoiler list. Go through the list, ignore BT, ringil, DW, etc.

Look at the rest. I guarantee you will find at least 1 ridiculosly broken item.



My best stat item was boots +7 spd, +7 int.
Right now im rocking an amulet +3 spd con dex str int wis rDis (+2,+2).

[AnonymousHero]

@AnonymousHero

Create a new game of randarts, suicide and create a spoiler list. Go through the list, ignore BT, ringil, DW, etc.

Look at the rest. I guarantee you will find at least 1 ridiculosly broken item.

I've done this thousands of times at this point and it isn't true.

(I was trying to see how broken a kit you could get for Ranger and Priest.)

My best stat item was boots +7 spd, +7 int.

If you were playing a Mage, sure. For all other classes (except perhaps Rogue, I guess) it's "junk" compared to an ego +10 speed boots.

[AnonymousHero]

Actually, you've reminded me of one tiny thing I would change about randarts - it's annoying that this "keep previous set of randarts" game option defaults to switched on and I have to remember to toggle it off every time I start a new savefile. Having the same set of artefacts recur game to game is the complete opposite of what I play with randarts for. (I too wouldn't miss the option if it was gone, but at the very least I think it should be switched off by default.)

Agreed. It's a strange default at the very least.

[PowerWyrm]

My best stat item was boots +7 spd, +7 int.

This is clearly a bug, randarts with stats should be limited to +6.

[bio_hazard]

OK- I've got a suggestion. Show the base item for Randarts in game without having to go to spoilers. I can't think of any reason not to do this.

[StMicah]

If the artifact lights are fully randomized, would the activations tied to those (e.g. enlightenment) be generated on other randarts equipment? If so, I kinda like that idea...less reliance on enlightenment because it would likely be bound to an item @ outgrows or to a junk item...and the redbook characters now have a mapping spell.

(But, perhaps, my liking this idea is because I grew bored with the overpowered Arkenstone that showed up in the nightlies a while back.)

[Nick]

If the artifact lights are fully randomized, would the activations tied to those (e.g. enlightenment) be generated on other randarts equipment?

Probably not.

What happens at the moment is that the special artifacts (lights, rings and amulets) have all their current properties wiped - except light activations - and then new properties put on. This means that there are always the same number of rings, amulets and lights in the game, with the same base item names. If instead we just make all randarts in the way the rest are made - choose a base item, turn it into an artifact - there would be no particular reason to get the light activations.

Incidentally, it's not completely obvious how this process should go. I have experimented with just doing the dumbest possible thing, and allowing rings, lights and amulets as base items. So there are artifacts based on existing rings - and moreover using their names, and remember that the names of rings and amulets are things like Sustenance, the Dog, etc. So you get some great sounding names, like

the Flames of Brenimros [+6], and
the Open Wounds of Faelona [+7] <+4, +1>

but also some less good ones like

the Slow Digestion of Losgarcar <+3, +5, +1>

There is still work to be done here