Bugs and complaints on current master

[Grotug]

Just started playing a gnome mage. I guess you can't get less than 1 blows per round no matter how heavy a weapon is? I think I was getting 1.0 blows per round with a dagger, so when I picked up a trident or something heavy I was doing more damage than the dagger, yet the warrior starting out does less damage with a trident (or most heavy weapons) than with a dagger? Don't make no sense. As a starting gnome mage, I shouldn't even be able to wield these heavier weapons. Or something needs to be adjusted.

[Malak Darkhunter]

been a long time playing for me, and just getting back into it. Last I remember there was a lot of work done on the combat mechanics? It's been a long time so I can't really remember but I want to think Derakon worked on this? I want to think it all boiled down to strength and dexterity and weapon weight.

[Derakon]

been a long time playing for me, and just getting back into it. Last I remember there was a lot of work done on the combat mechanics? It's been a long time so I can't really remember but I want to think Derakon worked on this? I want to think it all boiled down to strength and dexterity and weapon weight.

That was v4, not Vanilla 4.x. The names are super-confusing, I know. v4 was basically a variant the dev team at the time used to experiment with new mechanics, which included a new combat system I put together. But that combat system isn't in Vanilla. At least, it isn't yet. ...nor are there any remotely concrete plans to add it, either.

The v4 combat system was that every weapon had "balance" and "heft" scores (a maul would have high heft and low balance, a rapier the reverse), and the player had "finesse" and "prowess" scores. Damage per blow was (damage dice) * (heft * prowess), and number of blows was (1 + balance * finesse). The only effect of stats was a) needing enough STR to use the weapon at all, and b) STR and DEX substantially boosted the player's prowess and finesse, respectively.

But that doesn't apply to Grotug's character because he isn't playing v4. Mages and priests just don't have the starting stats needed to get more than one blow per round. You shouldn't be using melee as a mage anyway, given their paper-thin defenses; stick to Magic Missile, a sling, and thrown oil flasks.

[t4nk]

Soldier is not getting its tile. Linux + sdl + Gervais. Save attached.
Edit: the same thing happens with kobolds too.

That looks like a problem with .prf files, run this script:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR=~/misc/angband
ANGBAND_USER_DIR=~/.angband/Angband

find_prf() {
	echo "Searching \"$1\"..."
	for d in "$ANGBAND_USER_DIR" "$ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR/lib"; do
		echo "Checking $d"
		[ ! -d "$d" ] && echo "\"$d\" is not a directory!"
		while IFS= read -r -d '' f; do
			grep -iEHT "monster:$1:" "$f"
		done < <(find "$d" -iname '*.prf' -print0)
	done
}

find_prf Soldier
find_prf Kobold

and post the output on the forum.
Naturally, change the value of ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR to where you installed Angband.

[spara]

That looks like a problem with .prf files, run this script:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR=~/misc/angband
ANGBAND_USER_DIR=~/.angband/Angband

find_prf() {
	echo "Searching \"$1\"..."
	for d in "$ANGBAND_USER_DIR" "$ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR/lib"; do
		echo "Checking $d"
		[ ! -d "$d" ] && echo "\"$d\" is not a directory!"
		while IFS= read -r -d '' f; do
			grep -iEHT "monster:$1:" "$f"
		done < <(find "$d" -iname '*.prf' -print0)
	done
}

find_prf Soldier
find_prf Kobold

and post the output on the forum.
Naturally, change the value of ANGBAND_INSTALL_DIR to where you installed Angband.

Thanks. Unfortunately I suspected a corrupted install so I downloaded the latest master, compiled and installed it on top of the old one. Haven't seen a soldier or kobold yet, but I'll keep my eyes open and report back if funny stuff happens again.

[Grotug]

Playing on a Mac laptop; it is really nice being able to delay the key presses so that I can use the arrows together to go diagonal. However, this doesn't quite work as well as one would hope, since the keys only work together to make diagonal movements during combat or moving around the dungeon; all other times they don't get treated as one keystroke. So when I am pressing up and right to attack diagonally (normally NUM7) and [more] messages appear; they only get cleared by one of the two buttons pressed, leaving the other button as an action in the game; so I end up going right or up, instead of diagonally when the [more] messages are done. Cycling through objects on the map using the look command also doesn't work when using the diagonal combo keys for the same reason as the map doesn't apply the keystroke delay.

[spara]

This is an old quirk, but now that I've crossed it again, I'll post it as a reminder.

I started a new char, bought some basic armor and entered the dungeon. Stumbled upon a trap that splashed acid on my cloak: "Your cloak is damaged!". And now my cloak says "a Cloak [1] {??}" and the description says: "You do not know the full extent of this item's powers."

Nothings broken as such though. The trap just engraved "the rune of enchantment to armor" to my cloak .

I don't recall contents of the earlier discussions about this issue, but something should probably be done about this at some point. For example learning the rune when your stuff gets damaged/enchanted/unenchanted. Calling this property rune feels also a bit awkward. Maybe it could just be the quality of the garment or something.

[Nick]

This is an old quirk, but now that I've crossed it again, I'll post it as a reminder.

I started a new char, bought some basic armor and entered the dungeon. Stumbled upon a trap that splashed acid on my cloak: "Your cloak is damaged!". And now my cloak says "a Cloak [1] {??}" and the description says: "You do not know the full extent of this item's powers."

Nothings broken as such though. The trap just engraved "the rune of enchantment to armor" to my cloak .

I don't recall contents of the earlier discussions about this issue, but something should probably be done about this at some point. For example learning the rune when your stuff gets damaged/enchanted/unenchanted. Calling this property rune feels also a bit awkward. Maybe it could just be the quality of the garment or something.

Yes, thanks for that.

The correct thing to do would be have acid reduce the base armor class not the enchantment to armor. My guess is that that is a more or less neutral change - it makes low AC items slightly better and high AC ones slightly worse. It certainly (to me anyway) makes more sense.

What do people think?

[luneya]

Lowering the base, aside from being harder to implement, doesn't really make that much more sense. The base AC is intrinsic to whatever type of item something is. A metal cap, say, that gets acid-corroded is still a metal cap rather than any lesser headgear; it's just not as good of one.

In principle, we could separate between magical and non-magical bonuses to AC (or weapon hit/damage). In games like D&D, where there is a significant difference between magical and non-magical gear (due to monsters that are immune to the latter) this is necessary. For Angband, though, it's overkill.

The simplest solution is to just make the runes of AC/damage/hit bonuses automatically known to all characters. This makes it so that those never appear as unknown runes, and thus there is no reason for the player to think of them as runes, and so the question of the implausibility of acid attacks etching magical runes of crappiness into equipment never arises.

[spara]

The simplest solution is to just make the runes of AC/damage/hit bonuses automatically known to all characters.

This sounds like an excellent solution. Simple and elegant.

[Derakon]

This sounds like an excellent solution. Simple and elegant.

Agreed. Let's just assume that all adventurers, regardless of class, have basic martial training that allows them to recognize the quality and fundamental attributes of weapons.

After all, there's no rune for item weight, or for what inventory slot an item uses.

[Nick]

I have always assumed that the base characteristics of a weapon are its weight and damage dice, and weight and base AC for armor. The + to-hit, to-dam and to-AC I have always taken as magical enchantments (reinforced by the fact that you could increase them by using the appropriate Enchant scroll). Hence my assumption that acid should really reduce the base AC - so a Metal Cap [3, +4] which takes 3 acid attacks would become [0, +3], and be basically a corroded piece of tinfoil which still repels attacks because of magic.

It seems from the responses here, though, that other people see the + to AC as some combination of magic and good workmanship, which can be reduced by acid attacks down to a negative value of the same size as the base AC, so the cap now gets to go down to [3, -3] and be completely useless.

I still think my way makes more sense. What does everyone else think?

[t4nk]

Playing on a Mac laptop; it is really nice being able to delay the key presses so that I can use the arrows together to go diagonal. However, this doesn't quite work as well as one would hope, since the keys only work together to make diagonal movements during combat or moving around the dungeon

Or in other situations where the core asks for a direction - for example, aiming a wand.

all other times they don't get treated as one keystroke. So when I am pressing up and right to attack diagonally (normally NUM7) and [more] messages appear; they only get cleared by one of the two buttons pressed, leaving the other button as an action in the game; so I end up going right or up, instead of diagonally when the [more] messages are done. Cycling through objects on the map using the look command also doesn't work when using the diagonal combo keys for the same reason as the map doesn't apply the keystroke delay.

It would be difficult to change that without introducing a bunch of corner cases, especially related to keymaps... The proper fix would be 'qweasdzxc' control scheme, removal of commands 'q', 'a', 'z', etc. (there is already a unified 'use' command, so just remove inventory shuffling to make it actually useful), and removal of the "-more-" prompt, which is an amazing source of all kinds of problems.

[Azuria]

Yes, thanks for that.

The correct thing to do would be have acid reduce the base armor class not the enchantment to armor. My guess is that that is a more or less neutral change - it makes low AC items slightly better and high AC ones slightly worse. It certainly (to me anyway) makes more sense.

What do people think?

This brings up a problem with using non-acid immune gear, since there is no real way to repair acid damage, it's only a matter of time before the gear no longer provides the 50% damage reduction against acid. Alternatively, since acid deals damage in the same way as other base elements, that damage reduction could be removed entirely.

[Grotug]

It's a bit too big of an adjustment for me to use the qweadzxc keys.

When pushing through [more] prompts, is there a neutral key that will move the prompts along without inputting any command to the game? Enter key brings up some message box. I'm looking for a key that does nothing.

Maybe because I'm used to it the way it is, but I like that armors' enchantments gets eroded by acid, not their base. Plus, as much as I like to complain regularly about how much I hate my gear getting destroyed by acid, it wouldn't feel right if my magical sandals remained [0,+5] after continued attacks from the black dragonfly. Aside from that, I don't understand the point spara is making about the cloak being splashed by acid. Is it that since the cloak has taken damage it should reveal its stats in the same way being hit by a monster reveals the cloak's stats?