Rune-based ID

[PowerWyrm]

Ok I've started comp 186 and I have a stupid question... how are you supposed to learn tohit/todam of weapons? I've killed stuff with the starting dagger and bow/arrows, but none of them say anything. Or +0 stuff is not displayed anymore?

[Nick]

You might say that 4.1 will re-curse-ively fix this problem.

I would never say that.

[GenericPseudonym]

Are any of these new changes affected by rods of probing? Do they even exist any more?

Probing is the one that tells you info about monsters.

If you meant rods of perception, I'm pretty sure they've disappeared just like scrolls and spells of identify have.

[Scraper]

Are any of these new changes affected by rods of probing? Do they even exist any more?

[Nick]

Does this mean that a character over level 30 should instantly ID the unknown runes on anything they wear? It doesn't seem to be working like that, because my level 31 paladin just put on a ring of ice and didn't ID it until I 'A'ctivated it.

edit: Although I just put on an amulet and it instantly IDed as Teleportation. It seems like it's just the active abilities on rings that don't auto-ID, although the game IDed the actives on a few artifact weapons for me earlier...

You have pretty much summed up the way it works - artifact activations are known when you know it's an artifact, other objects you have to activate the individual one to learn it. I'm not sure this is ideal, but it is certainly the easiest way to implement it, and IMHO will do for now.

[GenericPseudonym]

• Calculate

  (total number of runes in the game) x (character level) / 30

  and that's the standard number of runes for a character of that level to have learned
• If the character is below the standard number:
  • They learn runes of objects on wield until they run out of such runes or reach the standard number
  • On level up, they learn runes of carried objects until they run out of such runes or reach the standard number

Does this mean that a character over level 30 should instantly ID the unknown runes on anything they wear? It doesn't seem to be working like that, because my level 31 paladin just put on a ring of ice and didn't ID it until I 'A'ctivated it.

edit: Although I just put on an amulet and it instantly IDed as Teleportation. It seems like it's just the active abilities on rings that don't auto-ID, although the game IDed the actives on a few artifact weapons for me earlier...

[debo]

Competition 186 is up, and it's based on this feature branch.

If you want to test it and win infamy and adulation at the same time, go for it: http://angband.oook.cz/competition.php?showcompo=186

[debo]

Seeing the name at a distance shouldn't happen - that's a bug.



Curses will be dealt with separately before 4.1 comes out - I may put in an interim solution until I get to them.

You might say that 4.1 will re-curse-ively fix this problem.

[Nick]

1). Since artifact names can be known from a distance without interaction (e.g., @ quaffs !Enlightenment and becomes aware that the Shield of the Haradrim is sitting in a vault), is the artifact lost forever if @ leaves the level? Previously, artifact names weren't known until pick-up, and once the name was known it could no longer be generated. Has this changed?

Seeing the name at a distance shouldn't happen - that's a bug.

2). It seems a little unfair to players that the "cursed" rune can only be learned if @ wields a cursed item. Previously, a @ could use identify, say on the Iron Crown of Beruthiel, to learn it was cursed before ever wielding it. Now, if @ has never donned a cursed item, player will never know which items are cursed. Not a problem for veterans who already know what items to avoid, but it's a real "gotcha" for new players.

Curses will be dealt with separately before 4.1 comes out - I may put in an interim solution until I get to them.

[Derakon]

How does rune-id work with a rogue?

Previously, a rogue (seemed) to have better pseudo-id and could sense different quality-levels quicker than other classes. (Am I right about this?) Does the rogue have a better/easier time learning the runes?

Old pseudo-ID worked solely on a speed system, with warriors having the fastest pseudo-ID and mages the slowest. Really old pseudo-ID also had warriors and hybrid classes get "detailed" pseudo-ID (magical, excellent, special, cursed, awful, and terrible) while mages and priests could only tell if an item was enchanted and/or cursed (and they couldn't even recognize if an item had no magic at all).

I don't believe that there is any pseudo-ID in the rune-based system, but I haven't had a chance to sit down with it yet.

[StMicah]

And, after one short run through the dungeon, I'm already a big fan of the rune system. I like an uncluttered dungeon and now, when I squelch low-quality items (say once I have a slay weapon) they don't show up.

THANK YOU! The chore of id-ing each item is over.

[StMicah]

How does rune-id work with a rogue?

Previously, a rogue (seemed) to have better pseudo-id and could sense different quality-levels quicker than other classes. (Am I right about this?) Does the rogue have a better/easier time learning the runes?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Two issues/questions with regard to artifacts with the rune-based ID system:

1). Since artifact names can be known from a distance without interaction (e.g., @ quaffs !Enlightenment and becomes aware that the Shield of the Haradrim is sitting in a vault), is the artifact lost forever if @ leaves the level? Previously, artifact names weren't known until pick-up, and once the name was known it could no longer be generated. Has this changed?

2). It seems a little unfair to players that the "cursed" rune can only be learned if @ wields a cursed item. Previously, a @ could use identify, say on the Iron Crown of Beruthiel, to learn it was cursed before ever wielding it. Now, if @ has never donned a cursed item, player will never know which items are cursed. Not a problem for veterans who already know what items to avoid, but it's a real "gotcha" for new players.

[Pete Mack]

As an alternative, bring back self -knowledge scroll, except you fully identify anything you are currently wearing.

[Carnivean]

I think it's a more organic solution than automatically learning runes on level-up.

I definitely agree with this. Have them appear between dlvl 10 and dlvl 70, once every 5 levels or so, and that should cover it.