Rune-based ID

[Derakon]

What's the rarity of these runidentify scrolls? Can you buy them?

I just copied the Scroll of Detect Invisible entry (adjacent in the item list) when I made the Scroll of Identify entry, so unless Nick bothers to adjust things, they'll be pretty common but not sold in shops.

[fizzix]

Some quality of life things which I think would improve things.

I think almost all flavored items should be ID'd immediately on use regardless of whether the effect is noticeable. The comp character (a kobold rogue) can never ID-by-use potions of neutralize poison, for example. All potions and scrolls should be ID'd immediately.

Effects that would do something if you are damaged, or have a status effect but don't do anything otherwise should also be ID'd. This includes curing, cure light wounds etc. Other utility items should also be ID'd as well, detect evil/invisible and probing.

The only thing that should not be ID'd are wands and staves that affect monsters. And you should be given a message to that extent. Something like, there are no monsters to notice the effect.

Ok enough about that.

The fact that stores don't give the base value is really weird. Can it even be learned? I bought some boots from the armorer and I still don't "know" what the base value is, even though I know the pluses. Is this really intended?

[debo]

What's the rarity of these runidentify scrolls? Can you buy them?

[StMicah]

And while I'm thinking about it, I don't think this feature will really be complete until there's a message for learning runes. "You learn the rune for Resist Fire", etc. Right now IDing runes is kind of short on feedback; you have to 'I'nspect the item to see what properties have been added to it since the last time you inspected it.

+1 to this...or catalog them in the ~menu with other sorts of accessed knowledge. right now, I'm just assuming I know the runes for what is highlighted in my character sheet.

and +1 to the idea that learning runes as you level is unnatural and happens too quickly...imagine quaffing that !Experience one sometimes finds at shallow depths. Also I can clvl a gnome or hobbit mage rather quickly and one one shallow dive so that they'd know too many runes before I'm finding the equipment that has those runes.

[Derakon]

Think of the non-target one not as a magical scroll but just a leaf out a book telling you what powers that particular rune endows?

Yeah, that was my thinking.

And while I'm thinking about it, I don't think this feature will really be complete until there's a message for learning runes. "You learn the rune for Resist Fire", etc. Right now IDing runes is kind of short on feedback; you have to 'I'nspect the item to see what properties have been added to it since the last time you inspected it.

[takkaria]

That "Identify Rune" scroll sounds good. For testing I suggest implementing the targeting scroll first and if that's not sufficient, then try with the non-targeting one. The targeting one feels much more logical in-game than randomly revealing an unknown rune.

Think of the non-target one not as a magical scroll but just a leaf out a book telling you what powers that particular rune endows?

[Nick]

I went ahead and mashed out a Scroll of Identify during my lunch break. It makes use of the object_learn_unknown_rune function in obj-knowledge.c, which learns runes in a strictly ordered fashion (e.g. combat modifiers are learned before resistances, resistances are learned in a set order), but otherwise gets the job done. I've submitted a pull request for Nick to look over. I also didn't bother with removing the "learn runes on level-up" behavior, mostly because I didn't want to take the time to learn where that particular bit of code even is.

Excellent - I think a consensus has pretty much emerged that this is the thing to do. I should have a chance to fully implement this (with randomised rune-learning) and fix the other obvious bugs over the weekend.

[Derakon]

I went ahead and mashed out a Scroll of Identify during my lunch break. It makes use of the object_learn_unknown_rune function in obj-knowledge.c, which learns runes in a strictly ordered fashion (e.g. combat modifiers are learned before resistances, resistances are learned in a set order), but otherwise gets the job done. I've submitted a pull request for Nick to look over. I also didn't bother with removing the "learn runes on level-up" behavior, mostly because I didn't want to take the time to learn where that particular bit of code even is.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Food items (rations, waybread, slime molds) all retain the ?? identifier, even if @ eats them while "hungry".

[spara]

That "Identify Rune" scroll sounds good. For testing I suggest implementing the targeting scroll first and if that's not sufficient, then try with the non-targeting one. The targeting one feels much more logical in-game than randomly revealing an unknown rune.

[Derakon]

Didn't potions of *Enlightenment* used to ID everything in your pack when you drank them? How about restoring that property, and also having standard Enlightenment ID something like 1-3 random runes/flavours from your pack? That way there's an alternative to ID-by-use once you're beyond the early levels, without having to introduce and balance a new type of identify scroll that would become obsolete after you'd identified everything.

I prefer the sound of the scroll approach I suggested earlier, where there's one scroll that IDs a random rune on a selected item, and one scroll that IDs a random rune you don't know. I'll see if I can take a look at the codebase in the next few days to try to implement either of these. Assuming I can manage it, it should be straightforward to experiment with attaching similar behaviors to other items.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with an item that is guaranteed to obsolete itself eventually. Plenty of items de-facto do that already -- unenchanted equipment, for example. Plus, marking those items for squelching can be the culmination of the ID game: a nice little checkbox to say "Okay, I'm done with this."

[Nomad]

On further playing, I think I'm coming round to agreeing that learning runes on level-up feels a bit weird and unnatural (plus I also feel you learn too many too fast in the early game where you're levelling up quickly).

Didn't potions of *Enlightenment* used to ID everything in your pack when you drank them? How about restoring that property, and also having standard Enlightenment ID something like 1-3 random runes/flavours from your pack? That way there's an alternative to ID-by-use once you're beyond the early levels, without having to introduce and balance a new type of identify scroll that would become obsolete after you'd identified everything.

[Nomad]

Unidentified jewellery in shops is not priced correctly - the magic shop's selling everything for 36 gold regardless of true value.

[spara]

AC pluses rune can also be discovered by damaging equipment. I can see the reason for that, but it feels a bit quirky.

[PowerWyrm]

Stepping on a square with stairs while blind doesn't detect the stairs. Maybe it should...