A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Derakon]

Yeah, I don't think that works -- I'm pretty sure you still need resistance to chaos (or protection from confusion) to avoid being confused by chaos attacks, for example. But I admit to not being clear on the details.

[Nick]

If I have both Light and Dark resistance along with a 100% saving throw, do I need Blindness resistance?

There are three ways of being blinded - Light/Dark attacks, spells to blind, and melee attacks to blind. rLight+rDark deals with the first of these, 100% saving throw with the second. The third is rare, but there are about a dozen monsters that have it.

There is a similar issue with Confusion and melee attacks that confuse (Hummerhorns being the standout example).

[Timo Pietilä]

There are three ways of being blinded - Light/Dark attacks, spells to blind, and melee attacks to blind. rLight+rDark deals with the first of these, 100% saving throw with the second. The third is rare, but there are about a dozen monsters that have it.

There is a similar issue with Confusion and melee attacks that confuse (Hummerhorns being the standout example).

Hummerhorns you can survive (fractional blows makes this easier). Titans are deadly.

[Oramin]

Odd. I was looking through artifact.txt over at github. It indicates that it was edited a year ago, but just glancing through it, it seemed that the artifact names had been edited in the past couple of weeks.

Then I was looking at The Crown of Gondor which I thought had stunning resistance; it wasn't listed. I searched for the "stun" text and didn't find it. I didn't find it in the ego items file either.

Then I went and opened artifact.txt on my system. Sure enough, it found "stun" under Crown of Gondor.

1. Is the update figure at Github broken?

2. Is there a reason that resist stun seems to be going away?

Oh, btw, thanks for the comments on blindness. I'm currently running without actual named blindness resistance and I haven't had any problems yet while I'm hanging out on 94/95.

Almost forgot...

3. Does Balance Dragon Scale Mail spawn as a base type? I've seen all the other types including a couple of Power Dragon Scale Mails (last game) but never Balance Dragon Scale Mail. If it doesn't spawn, how can we get Mediator?

Edit:

Never mind, I just found some Balance Dragon Scale Mail from a Great Wyrm of Law on level 95. *blush*

Hmm, if asking causes things to spawn...

Hey, does The One Ring spawn? I've found all three Rings of Power in my last two games but never The One Ring. (see if that works...)

[Timo Pietilä]

Hey, does The One Ring spawn? I've found all three Rings of Power in my last two games but never The One Ring. (see if that works...)

It is supposed to be very very very rare. Like one in million chance (literally). Versions between 3.0 and 3.4 had rarity limitation which was fixed in 3.4, so it probably is again rare enough that not everybody finds it. Ever.

[Derakon]

Let me put it this way -- I've been playing since the mid-90's or so and I've never found it (outside of ToME where it's integrated into the plot quests). I think I read about 2 people finding it outside of the period where artifacts couldn't be made properly rare; one of those was some lucky bastard who got it around 800'.

[Oramin]

I just found Ringil and I swapped it in for Durin. The interesting thing is Durin with Haste Self felt like it was doing more damage than Ringil (I'm in the +30 range in both situations).

Is the extra weight of Durin (23 lbs vs. 13 lbs, IIRC) really that important to the damage calculations?

[Derakon]

If I recall correctly, weapon weight has a moderately significant impact on the quality of critical hits you can get. For example, *GREAT* hits are basically only possible with a Mace of Disruption, or Grond. I don't really care to quantify that right now, though.

Durin is a 4d4 (+10, +20) weapon, compared to Ringil's 4d5 (+22, +25). Durin does have an acid brand, which is the best elemental brand (more or less); Ringil's cold brand is much less useful (it has similar damage ramifications but affects fewer monsters). Ringil does have the best demonslaying brand, and will also slay evil so it will get moderately boosted damage against many targets. Durin is excellent for dragonslaying though.

Bottom line is, it's a bit situational which does more damage. But Ringil should be better on average.

[Oramin]

Hmm, do you happen to have a link to the current (3.3.2) version of the formula for calculating critical hit damage?

I think crits are why it felt like Durin was causing more damage; it was (+13, +20), btw, courtesy of some *Enchant* scrolls. I seem to recall seeing crits on a regular basis from Durin, not so much with Ringil. Oh, I also lost some STR when I switched over. Dragons are definitely slower with Ringil, but Demons don't seem to be any faster.

[Derakon]

Okay, fine, I guess I'll go source-diving. The formulae aren't linked anywhere that I'm aware of, but the relevant function is critical_norm in attack.c.

Crit chance calculation is based on (weight in decipounds) + (total melee to-hit bonus * 5) + (player level * 3). You have a (chance in 5000) chance of getting a critical hit; if this fails, you get a regular hit.

Crit power rating is given as (weapon weight in decipounds) + (1d650). Durin's best crit power would be 880, giving a "great" hit (2x + 10 damage), barely better than a "good" hit (2x + 5). At 900 power you can get "superb" hits (3x + 15).

Durin's weight gives it an extra +100 to crit chance and crit power compared to Ringil, but its to-hit is lower by 9 (in your case), which reduces its chance by 45. So you'll get crits an extra 1.1% of the time. The actual power of those crits is only slightly better, on average, than Ringil's, especially since Ringil has higher base damage to multiply by.

Almost no major demons resist acid, so the difference between the two is just Ringil's x5 slay vs. Durin's x3 brand -- it should be noticeable, but not extreme.

I hadn't realized how discretized the critical quality cutoffs are. Not just the *GREAT* hit, but also the Superb hit, is functionally unachievable for almost all weapons. And good/great hits are almost identical.

[Oramin]

Hmm, looks like the calculation has changed a lot since 2.9.7 (2.7.9? ... ok, an older version). I recall getting a lot of *GREAT* hits back then with Durin. Kind of disappointing that the top level crits are so much harder to get. After I finish up with my Gnome Mage (Sauron and Morgoth are left), I'm going to try a Troll Warrior for a change of pace; I was hoping that his lack of ranged AOE ability would be made up for with crits in melee. Well, we'll see.

Well, thanks for running the numbers for me. Shows why impressions should be checked against actual numbers.

Also, after having played around with Kelek's for a bit, I'm satisfied with the game balance with Mana Storm and having regular access to Banishment/Mass Banishment.

Finally, I was curious, is it actually possible to have a character with 5000 HP or are Potions of Life just on the ridiculous side?

[debo]

Doesn't Ringil give 10 speed? I thought that was the reason it was so good.

[Derakon]

Finally, I was curious, is it actually possible to have a character with 5000 HP or are Potions of Life just on the ridiculous side?

Vanilla characters top out around 1200HP, IIRC -- that's a half-troll warrior with max CON and a decent set of levelup rolls. Potions of Life are just that ridiculous.

[Oramin]

Doesn't Ringil give 10 speed? I thought that was the reason it was so good.

Yep, Ringil gives +10 Speed but when you're a Mage you can pretty much run with Haste Self constantly up. And with the diminishing returns on Speed past +30, there isn't much point to running around with +42 Speed (or so I understand).

That's why we were comparing Durin + Haste Self straight up with Ringil. I had about +22 Speed with Durin and about +32 Speed with Ringil.

[Timo Pietilä]

Oh, I also lost some STR when I switched over.

That can have rather large impact: STR 18/190 -> 18/220 is five points of damage. One of the reasons why Set of Caestus of Power <+5> can beat Fingolfin or Cambeleg.