A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Derakon]

Different temporary boosts stack in different ways. Speed is notable for stacking oddly, but for some reason many effects just stack duration indefinitely.

Personally I think that all temporary status boosts should use the "reset" stack method, where re-casting the boost simply resets the duration back to full.

[Oramin]

Ok, thanks.

[Oramin]

Are you folks sure that you haven't programmed the RNG to mock players? I just found 2 Wraths of God lying on the ground on the same level - but I still haven't found Kelek's.

(Playing a High Elf Mage as a reminder.)

Edit:

Finally!

The RNG has taken mercy on my soul.

(in a good way not in going to your death way)

[DaviddesJ]

As another returning player, I really agree that the game is vastly improved in many small ways, but one of the things I really miss is the size of the Home. It may just be a stylistic thing, but I like being able to keep around things I might want later. Having to ditch most artifacts immediately, not being able to store some nice ammo in case I want it, limiting how many mushroom and potion types I can accumulate, etc., etc., all make the game less fun for me.

[Oramin]

Ok, now I'm curious about Disenchantment attacks and Wormtongue.

As discussed previously, Disenchantment will trash the (+5, +5) on Cammithrim (gloves).

What effect will Disenchantment attacks have on the (-1, -1) on Wormtongue (boots)?

Depending on the coding it could be (+0, +0), no effect, or (-INF, -INF).

(or whatever the limit is for negative numbers).

Anybody happen to know?

[Derakon]

I'm reasonably confident that disenchantment can only take items down to +0, but I haven't actually looked at the code.

Conceptually I think of disenchantment as draining the magic from the item, so magically cursed gear ought to be able to be drained as well, improving it. But I doubt that's actually the case.

[Oramin]

Thanks. Any code viewers out there?

On a different issue, I have a L45 Kobold Warrior who has been wearing an Amulet of Devotion and just found an Amulet of Trickery (+2 on important stats).

Switching over reduces my saving throw from 74% to 70%. Worth it? Base Speed is currently around +27 or so (Cubragol, kind of sucks for damage though).

[Derakon]

I generally don't pay attention to my saving throw percentage; there are more specific protections for the important stuff, so it mostly just reduces the damage you take from cursing attacks and reduces the odds of you being screwed over by nexus attacks or a monster teleporting you away.

Trickery is almost always better than Devotion, in other words. Trickery amulets are OP.

[DaviddesJ]

Seems to me that the difference between a saving throw of 74% and 70% is pretty negligible. You aren't going to allow catastrophic things to happen either 26% of the time or 30% of the time.

On the other hand, the difference between a saving throw of 96% and 100% can be pretty big.

[Oramin]

Seems to me that the difference between a saving throw of 74% and 70% is pretty negligible. You aren't going to allow catastrophic things to happen either 26% of the time or 30% of the time.

On the other hand, the difference between a saving throw of 96% and 100% can be pretty big.

Yeah but the difference between 74% and 70% might actually be the difference between 100% and 96% depending on the way saving throws are implemented in the game.

(invitation to the code-readers; something I am too lazy to do)

As it is, I'm just going to use Trickery and carry Devotion as a swap for Darkness attacks (or I could just find the Arkenstone).

Edit:

I should call them "Implementors" instead of "code-readers" just for the Zork reference (Beyond Zork, I think).

[Patashu]

Yeah but the difference between 74% and 70% might actually be the difference between 100% and 96% depending on the way saving throws are implemented in the game.

It's not an implementation detail, it's an importance detail. The difference between 96% and 100% is simply more important than the difference between 74% and 70% purely because in the former case you go from 'I usually won't be hit by this status effect, but I have to plan for it happening' to 'this will never ever hit me, I no longer need plans for it happening, and in the latter case it goes from 'this will usually hit me' to 'this will usually hit me, just slightly less often'. The former case is worth sacrificing other things for potentially, the latter case not so much.

[Oramin]

It's not an implementation detail, it's an importance detail. The difference between 96% and 100% is simply more important than the difference between 74% and 70% purely because in the former case you go from 'I usually won't be hit by this status effect, but I have to plan for it happening' to 'this will never ever hit me, I no longer need plans for it happening, and in the latter case it goes from 'this will usually hit me' to 'this will usually hit me, just slightly less often'. The former case is worth sacrificing other things for potentially, the latter case not so much.

Yes, it is an importance detail but it is only becomes important if the game has implemented saving throws in the proper manner.

Specifically, suppose that most monsters have a penalty to their casting ability such that 26 percentage points are added to your saving throw. Then 70% is changed to 96% and 74% is changed to 100%.

I would appreciate it if you wouldn't correct me when I understand what I'm saying and you clearly didn't.

[DaviddesJ]

Yeah but the difference between 74% and 70% might actually be the difference between 100% and 96% depending on the way saving throws are implemented in the game.

(invitation to the code-readers; something I am too lazy to do)

I guess I haven't read the code, but I thought that saving throws are very simple---there's a percentage chance and you make it or you don't.

[Oramin]

There's something in one of the help files about your saving throw improving while the monsters' casting skills improve. Ambiguous enough to mean it might be programmed the way I suggested.

[Timo Pietilä]

Ok, now I'm curious about Disenchantment attacks and Wormtongue.

Did I miss part of the question? I don't see anything relevant to Wormy in rest of the message. Wormy doesn't disenchant.

I'm not sure disenchantment affect non-weapon combat bonuses anymore in 3.4.1. I just tested with debug-mode created gauntlets of power and summoned disenchanter eye. After 12 disenchants those gauntlets still have their original (+4,+4) combat bonuses, just AC is now [5,+0]