A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Patashu]

...you know already a lot more than just deviation. Which makes my point, standard deviation without additional info is just useless number.

If you don't know the distribution, you can sample it, and then you can estimate the population mean and standard deviation from the sample mean and sample standard deviation.

How did you get 2.5% out of that and values of 505, 5050 and 6060? My question is how do I use that info in practical way. Do I have to look it from a table Patashu posted, or is there a easy way to use it in calculations? I hope answer doesn't include integrals or laplaces.

You can calculate it, but the calculation is non-fundamental, so you may as well use the table.
Once you have the table and use it, you can determine what % chance outliers a certain number of SDs away from the mean are to happen, which is very useful for considering risk and risk averse strategies' merits compared to each other. I would not downplay this tool just because it requires looking at a table and using math.

Frak, I was hoping to get something useful from that. Apparently it isn't useful number for any of the people that doesn't have that table.

Whenever I need the table, I google 'z score' and every image is the table. (Basically, z score is how many standard deviations a sample is from the mean in a distribution, positive or negative)

[Oramin]

I've been wondering, when did the game switch over to auto-disarming of traps?

I used to occasionally use traps as escape devices (Teleport, Trap Door). Now there doesn't seem to be any way to deliberately trigger them.

Also, while I like the way that simply noticing monsters move via Telepathy no longer stops multiple actions (such as resting until healed), I did recently have a problem with a room of animals that included tunnelling critters. I was building a long tunnel so I could keep firing OoDs into the room when I apparently got close enough for them to notice me. Instead of my digging stopping on walls disappearing, it didn't stop until a monster (a *lot* of monsters) suddenly had LOS on me.

It wasn't lethal (this time) and I'll take greater care now that I now that it is the way things work, but stopping when things are coming through walls or digging through walls to you would be a good thing.

[Derakon]

You can still trigger traps intentionally. I believe you want to hit the '-' key; it'll prompt you for a direction to move-without-alter in.

[Oramin]

Thanks.

Can I get a little math help. I'm (L43 Dunadan Paladin) using a Longbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+14, +15) <+1>. I have a Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+16, +20) <+1> sitting in my home.

Assuming that I can get the ammo up to (+12, +12), since I have the appropriate Spellbook, what is the damage per round?

Obviously, I'm trying to decide if I should switch over and I would have to give up my specialty arrows for ordinary bolts until I find some higher quality ones. I should also note that I'm on L51 of the dungeon and am currently running with a base Speed of +9 (which is normally a few pounds overloaded for +8).

[Oramin]

Turns out the (approximate) damage equation was earlier in this thread, so I could do the math myself. Here's the equation for the convenience of the reader (and so it can be corrected if I have it wrong).

A = (Avg Base Damage Ammo) + (Ammo Bonus Damage) + (Launcher Bonus Damage)

B = (Launcher Multiplier) + (Ammo Slay/Brand Multiplier)

Avg Damage = A * B * (# of shots)

Note that this doesn't account for crits which should require using the To Hit numbers.

Ok, running with that we have:

Longbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+14, +15) <+1> with (1d4) (+12, +12) ammo:

A = (2.5) + (12) + (15) = 29.5

B = 3

Avg Damage = 29.5 * 3 * 2 = 177

Longbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+14, +15) <+1> with (3d4) (+12, +12) ammo:

A = (7.5) + (12) + (15) = 34.5

B = 3

Avg Damage = 34.5 * 3 * 2 = 207


Compare with:

Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+16, +20) <+1> with (1d5) (+12, +12) ammo:

A = (3) + (12) + (20) = 35

B = 4

Avg Damage = 35 * 4 * 2 = 280


So even regular ammo from the Heavy Crossbow does a lot more damage than Mithril Arrows from the Longbow.

Running the numbers for Branded (x3) ammo we get:

Longbow of Extra Shots (x3) (+14, +15) <+1> with (1d4) (+12, +12) (x3 branded) ammo:

A = (2.5) + (12) + (15) = 29.5

B = (3) + (3) = 6

Avg Damage = 29.5 * 6 * 2 = 354


Heavy Crossbow of Extra Shots (x4) (+16, +20) <+1> with (1d5) (+12, +12) (x3 branded) ammo:

A = (3) + (12) + (20) = 35

B = (4) + (3)

Avg Damage = 35 * 7 * 2 = 490


Looks like switching over is worthwhile.

[Timo Pietilä]

Looks like switching over is worthwhile.

Couple of more advantages of HXBow are that it has slightly longer range which gives you one extra turn of shooting compared to longbow and that bolts don't break quite as easily as arrows saving you some ammo.

Only bad thing in it is that it and its ammo are quite a lot heavier than bow and arrows.

[Oramin]

Yeah, I've been slowed from +8 to +7. On the other hand, I was able, last night, to kill Harowen (+30) on approach by backing off and turning the separating wall between us into mud and then shooting from range with a +17 speed. Harowen never reached me.

Another question is what is the Enchant Weapon cap? I was able to get bolts up to (+15, +15) along with Til-I-Arc.

[Ed_47569]

Another question is what is the Enchant Weapon cap? I was able to get bolts up to (+15, +15) along with Til-I-Arc.

+15 on any weapon or ammo is the limit that you can enchant yourself - although very, very hard after +10, expecially for Artefacts which, in addition, only get 1/2 chance to succeed.

[Derakon]

Odds of failing an enchantment attempt on a single item:

Bonus   Failure rate
0	0%
1	1%
2	2%
3	4%
4	8%
5	16%
6	28%
7	40%
8	55%
9	70%
10	80%
11	90%
12	95%
13	97%
14	99%
15	100%

Additionally, you have to pass a stack-size-based check of 1 in N where N is the number of items in the stack, or 1/20th the number for ammo. Thus enchanting 20 or fewer arrows, you'd have the above odds; 21-40 they'd be halved, etc.

[Oramin]

I'm assuming those are the numbers for a regular Enchant scroll and not an *Enchant* scroll?

Because the odds for the Enchant Weapon spell seemed to be much better than that.

Thanks for the confirmation on the stack size; I enchanted two separate stacks of 20 bolts to (+15, +15). Based on prior experience, stacks of 20 felt like a transition point for success/failure on enchanting but I wasn't sure of it.

[Derakon]

I'm assuming those are the numbers for a regular Enchant scroll and not an *Enchant* scroll?

Because the odds for the Enchant Weapon spell seemed to be much better than that.

The only difference between Enchant and *Enchant* scrolls is that the latter tries to enchant both to-hit and to-dam 1d3 times each. The spell version gives 0-4 + (clvl / 20) attempts to each, so up to 6 attempts to enchant both to-hit and to-dam with one casting. The prayer gives a straight 1d5 attempts on both; dunno why they're so trivially different.

[Oramin]

The RNG finally decided to stop taunting me. What do I mean by "taunting"? Kelek's was generated twice before L50 (on the ground on L45 and in the Black Market) and I'm playing a Paladin.

I had previously found 3 Boots of Speed - +1, +2, and +3. Well, the RNG finally produced some Boots of Elvenkind with +9 Speed and +4 Stealth. And it was in the Armory and not the Black Market so it was much less expensive.

[Oramin]

Hmm, so does Destruction destroy artifacts, remove artifacts from the level (for a later respawn), or does it leave them there?

I have an Undead Vault on L57 and I'm pretty sure I would have severe problems with my L43 Paladin, so I'm thinking of using Destruction on the room to get access to those 3 Great Hammers (Come on Aule!!).

[Timo Pietilä]

Hmm, so does Destruction destroy artifacts, remove artifacts from the level (for a later respawn), or does it leave them there?

I have an Undead Vault on L57 and I'm pretty sure I would have severe problems with my L43 Paladin, so I'm thinking of using Destruction on the room to get access to those 3 Great Hammers (Come on Aule!!).

If you don't already know it to be a Artifact, then it is just removed and can be found again, if you know it is artifact then it is "destroyed" and can't be found again.

This is a change from old behavior where you could use destruction to clear GV and then get the remaining artifacts at will.

IIRC earthquake can also remove artifacts, but it requires that the spot where they are is embedded in stone (floor -> stone).

[Oramin]

Thanks. Hard way it is.