Level feelings, yeah, again

[meJustmeNotyou]

I made an account just to ask this. (cool way to add an account by the way, having to remember what he said at the gate, or wiki it).


Anyway, Level feelings. When I started playing Angband years ago (normal version) the level feelings worked perfectly fine for the special feelings. Now I've been playing a week or so and I read that the feelings don't work worth squat (basicaly).


So I read the threads I could find on what the problem is but not all my questions have been answered.


Why did something work once upon a time and then later additions to the game have been made and now "they are broken" ?


Can someone explain the technical (not too technical) reason why what once worked no longer works ?


And why what no longer works can't just have recoded into the program a simple option for people like me who liked playing with special level feelings and lost artifacts ?


Like, just say if artifact plopped on ground at creation of level, level feeling = special ? Even if you think it's "lame" there are people like me that play the game 20% just for such special level feeling///artifact lost///gameplay... and seems it would be extremely simple to code.


I like the fact that the development of this game is still alive and people like the game but, I just wish this was something others would have "fixed" already.


Lastly I know from reading many of your responses to level feelings you have all kinds of ideas on things that you think level feelings should pertain to and that's all fine and honestly i am "not" interrested in such replies here.


You can have your ultra advanced level feeling ideas and stuff.


I wouldn't mind playing with some of the ideas., but I just want a simple "if then" coded option for people like me too, on the side of anything else that may be cool for another day.


Thanks... and if it's harder than I think, or if this is an old and already answered topic, sorry. I did search the threads.


I want a new version with just this added tomorrow, haha. I miss the artifacts (and whatever else but always an artifact) triggering this special feeling.... a very fun part of the game that I hate "broken".


Just my 2 cents on what I wish the game had to offer.


Later all who read this far. (and if i suck at searching and it's already fixed... i'll eat a slime mold).

[Derakon]

You can get special level feelings and lost artifacts back. Just hit '=' when creating your character and turn off preserve mode.

The problem is, and has always been (so far as I'm aware, back even to the 2.4 frog-knows days), that "special" level feelings don't apply just to artifacts, but also to all kinds of other crap including pits. In particular, jelly pits. Just because you get a special level feeling doesn't mean there's anything there worth bothering with.

[Max Stats]

You can get special level feelings and lost artifacts back. Just hit '=' when creating your character and turn off preserve mode.

The problem is, and has always been (so far as I'm aware, back even to the 2.4 frog-knows days), that "special" level feelings don't apply just to artifacts, but also to all kinds of other crap including pits. In particular, jelly pits. Just because you get a special level feeling doesn't mean there's anything there worth bothering with.

Isn't no-preserve going away at some point in the future (if it hasn't already in the nightlies)?

[Nick]

Anyway, Level feelings. When I started playing Angband years ago (normal version) the level feelings worked perfectly fine for the special feelings.

AFAICT if you were happy with them then you still will be. Sometimes 'x is broken' means 'I don't like x' or 'I don't understand x' or 'I have some other random, unspecified objection to x' or 'I'm so lame I have nothing better to do than whinge on forums'.

Hmm, I apparently got up on the anarchic side of the bed. Pls no rage

[d_m]

I think most of the problems people talk about having with feelings is that they are often somewhat deceptive.

For instance, you might hit a "superb" level which doesn't seem that great. Or you might hit a level whose feeling is pretty average but you actually get some really good items. There are a lot of reasons for that. The "special" feeling is only available (and AFAIK was only ever available) when you played with no preserve mode (meaning when you left a level any unfound artifacts were lost forever). Most people nowadays don't play that way (it's off by default) so most people don't ever get "special" feelings (and unfound artifacts aren't lost forever).

The reason why people talk about new ways of doing level feelings is it's not clear what they *should* do now. It's not like someone just broke them but rather that they show their age. One reason why updating them is somewhat fraught is that some people consider them to be too spoily, and so making them more useful would make them more spoily. Other people point out that in fact it's hard to predict how good a level is, given that any monster *could* drop really good items, or you could have tons of uniques that drop nothing. Also some people want to measure quality of loot, others amount of danger, and others how rare/interesting the shape/layout is.

Anyway, if you encounter specific bugs or problems with the current level feelings please feel free to report them. Thanks!

[Timo Pietilä]

Isn't no-preserve going away at some point in the future (if it hasn't already in the nightlies)?

I certainly hope not. It is fun to play with risk of losing artifacts every now and then.

[takkaria]

Thanks for letting me keep my ultra advanced level feeling ideas and stuff, I appreciate it. I'm also glad to hear you want a new version tomorrow with a new option added, and that you're honest about what replies you want to your post. I like honest people. Allowances and requests phrased like this will definitely ingratiate you with the development team, and indeed, the whole community.

Having said that, it's polite when when asking people to do stuff for you to use the word "please" in there somewhere, even if you believe it would be simple to do and you feel it's a grave injustice that it's not been done already.

Luckily, it has been done already. As other people have pointed out, the problem you're complaining about isn't actually a problem. Toggle the "birth_no_preserve" to ON at character birth and it will all be fine and dandy.

Have a nice day!

[will_asher]

I want a new version with just this added tomorrow, haha.

He added a "haha", doesn't that make it all alright?

[Magnate]

I certainly hope not. It is fun to play with risk of losing artifacts every now and then.

I agree with Timo. EDIT: Having caught up on IRC, I'm fairly confident that non-preserve isn't going anywhere yet.

[Max Stats]

I agree with Timo. EDIT: Having caught up on IRC, I'm fairly confident that non-preserve isn't going anywhere yet.

OK, I just thought I read one of the maintainers say awhile back that he wanted preserve to be standard and remove the option. But even if he did, I suppose they are allowed to change their minds!

[ulrichvonbek]

For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.

[Magnate]

OK, I just thought I read one of the maintainers say awhile back that he wanted preserve to be standard and remove the option. But even if he did, I suppose they are allowed to change their minds!

You did, they did, and they did.

[Max Stats]

You did, they did, and they did.

Got it, got it, and got it!

[meJustmeNotyou]

hey

i didn't mean to offend anyone how i wrote this... if you took something i said wrong, sorry. I just throw words out when i type, but yeah, i'll pay more attention to maybe coming off the wrong way.

I really just wanted to not have people wasting their time explaining things to me I already read elsewhere.

Which, i have to say i thought for sure after reading the threads i did, was saying that special etc etc wasn't working, at all.

Anyway... I'm glad it is working so.... thanks for responding....

And on a side note to one of teh dev people, I do have a bug to report (off i go)....

(not sure if i have to eat the slime mold like i said but whatever, here goes)

[Spacebux]

This Place Looks Reasonably Safe

For my $.02, I think level feelings should be a measure of how unusual the level is. Monsters you've never seen, monsters you've rarely fought, items you've never seen, pits and vaults, etc.

Right now, you get strange messages, like: "this place looks pretty safe" when you come down stairs surrounded by a pack of gravity hounds.

Yes - I'm sure there are players out there who feel a mob-pit is something to get excited about. But, the level feelings ought to be separated from mobs---completely.

Perhaps a better way to do it would be to separate level feelings into Item and Mob feelings. But, I personally think feelings ought to be vague at best. I hate having "superb" levels turn into real disappointments when no artifacts turn up... and just another copy of Kelek's appears to have spiked the level feeling.

If one made level feelings separated mob/item counters, that would be great. Making the feelings in general vague, harder to gauge whether its a great level or not, would also be an improvement. That would greatly reduce so-called stair-scumming (or Alter Reality-scumming by the Priests).

--SpaceBux--